Topic: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action

[Silver Shocker]

That's how she dies actually. Spoiler I guess,if the premise didn't already made that obvious.

Yeah, not exactly a shocker (pun not intended). And that IS how Electra died. I didn't say WHO was getting the sai through the chest?

But the real question is, is it as good as better than "Same as it Never Was?" Because SaiNW might be my single favorite piece of TMNT media. It's close. Like top 3-5

Its Eastman and Laird writing Ninja Turtles after some 20 years,what more could I say.

I know one thing you could say: Did Eastman finally learn to draw? 

[HarryTrotter]

We still have 3 issues to go,so probably best to reserve judgment until then.
Eastman does the flashbacks,and I think he improved.

Speaking of bad futures,I receny found out that Mad Max 3-parter was meant to be the canon finale to the 2012 series,but Nicleodon overruled that. Ending the show on the fact your heroes failed and all of their efforts were pointless would be a real downer ending.

[Silver Shocker]

Eastman does the flashbacks,and I think he improved.

Did he improve compared to the original run, or the hundreds of variant covers he did for the main IDW run?

Because those are all conceptually interesting, but, for me at least, the art lands at So Bad, It's Good.

A homage to the first X-Men comic cover, with 5 Turtles vs Karai instead of X-Men vs. Magneto? That's fun. Art could be a lot better. But TMNT art has always been a bit of a mixed bag.

Speaking of bad futures,I receny found out that Mad Max 3-parter was meant to be the canon finale to the 2012 series,but Nicleodon overruled that. Ending the show on the fact your heroes failed and all of their efforts were pointless would be a real downer ending.

Yeah, I read that back in the day, and it would have been a pretty bad way to end it. I don't think it would particularly fit tone wise. But, as I mentioned before, the tone for that show moved along a silly-to-serious spectrum a lot. I actually do think the FW crossover arc was more appropriate, even if they went to the well to many times.

Same as it Never Was as the canonical finale to 2003 that....still probably wouldn't be very good, but it might feel a little more appropriate. Other than it being a Donnie-centic episode.

[Silver Shocker]

Back to the story, it's not hard to find, Ninjas that are of the body and of the mind Power Rangers/TMNT, I finished issue #2. Not too much to say:

1. Bebop and Rocksteady look fun in this art style (vey original-cartoon inspired). But they screwed up on the art. The script specifically says they have guns, and Bebop is using a minigun of some kind in the fight scene in issue #3, but it's not drawn in when Bebop shows up at the end of #2. I see that as a disconnect between the writer and the artist.

2. Leo and Red Ranger teaming up to fight Karai, who matches their moves style for style....only for Yellow Ranger to knock her out by throwing what I'm going to assume is a medicine ball at her head. I say medicine ball because the art in this book, while fun, colorful and dynamic, is sometimes so funky it's hard to tell what's going on. And the warehouse they're in has punching bags and what I'm assuming are medicine b*lls.

YR: Just hit her in the head guys. Don't overthink it.

I'm giving this a soft pass because it's fun even though it's probably extremely unlikely this would work on any of the major iterations of Karai.

Then they tie Karai up. I'm trying to decide if this is more or less undignified than the fight she had with Leo and Mikey for the Heart of Tengu.

3. Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady versus Rita and her group. Fun stuff, just what you'd want to see in this crossover. Rita seems too powerful in this, but that could be my limited knowledge of Power Rangers, but I think I saw most of her appearances in the original run at least. Anyway, Shredder becomes the Green Ranger, something they heavily sold this book on, even putting it on the cover to #3. Because it just looks that damn cool.

4. Shredder mentions that he has some allies in Dimension X. I guess Krang lent Shredd-Head the Technodrome while he's just chilling out back home. How odd.

Onto #3:

1. Mikey gets the PR to eat his style of pizza. You knew that was coming. Zach gives it a seal of approval. "I may never go back to pepperoni."

Fun fact: James Rolfe uploaded a video of a pizza part he hosted with his friends and wife where he actually made Mikey's favorite pizzas. Most of them were dubbed gross, but if I recall, the jelly bean one was dubbed the clear winner.

2. Billy: So Master Splinter, I've been thinking about this and... Did the mutagen turn you from a rat into a person or a person into a rat?

Splinter: Exactly.

Billy: Riiiiight.

I'm trying to decide if that's lazy writing or brilliant writing.

3. Ok, this is kinda interesting. Trini, the Yellow Ranger, is talking to Raph while sparring at the ol' punching bag, and says this to him:

"So....the isolation, the public perception?"

Raph: I'm NOT angry. Who said I'm angry? It was Mikey, wasn't it?

Trini: No, I'm just saying. Maybe it's not so bad. You don't have to go to school and lie to your friends and family....you can just be you.

The 2017 movie version of Trini was the first LGBT+ Power Ranger, and was largely reported as the "first gay superhero in film". She was lightly said to have "girlfriend troubles" and had a troubled relationship with her parents due to not being straight.

I'm unsure if this element of the character was carried over to the modern comics (a quick Google-fu failed me) but this is a mismash of TMNT canon already, and that's an interesting moment regardless)

[HarryTrotter]

I got around to Archie run,TMNT Adventure...and it is freaking weird. It uses the original cartoon aesthetic,but it has Turtles fighting the 4 horseman of the apocalypse and Splintet remembering Hiroshima. You know,for kids!
Krang takes over Shredders body facehugger style,that was funny.
Also,Turtles really want you to know that the world is dying because of pollution. They preach about it EVERY issues.

[Silver Shocker]

Krang takes over Shredders body facehugger style,that was funny.

Oh, is that where the 2003 cartoon got that idea from? Not that they couldn't have come up with it on their own, but if it counts as a deep cut TMNT reference, that's fun too.

Also,Turtles really want you to know that the world is dying because of pollution. They preach about it EVERY issues.

I'm pretty sure as a kid I had a children's book about the TMNT teaching about pollution. And possibly one that was an anti-drug PSA.

Read a bit more of PR/TMNT:

Morphin' Time:

Donnie: So are your clothes under your costumes, or what?

Oh Donnie, asking all the important questions. That's why you're best turtle. 

[HarryTrotter]

I don't think so. Utroms were a thing in Mirage comics. And it looks different.

[Silver Shocker]

I love it.

 

No, I was talking about Ch'rell jumping on people's faces as a way to attack them and the unproduced Fast Forward episode with a Triceraton Shredder, who'd be revealed to be C'Hrell on his face.

[detourne_me]

I remember those issues of Krang controlling Shredder, did you also read the stuff where Raph wears a black uniform the makes it look like he's just a ninja trtle shadow?

[HarryTrotter]

Yes,the Intergalactic wrestling. Thats where Stump came from. Actually whole Dimension X/Trial of Krang arc of IDW comics is a tour thru Archie concepts.

There is also that time Turtles get involved into sectarian violence in Jerusalem and Mikey gets blinded by a Molotov. This happened in a comic based on the 80's cartoon. I can't stress that enough.

[Silver Shocker]

I remember those issues of Krang controlling Shredder, did you also read the stuff where Raph wears a black uniform the makes it look like he's just a ninja trtle shadow?

Yep, I remember Rapheal's black uniform fondly. One of the first comics I ever had and one of the first TMNT comics had Raph in that uniform. I also had this really nifty TMNT calendar that used art from the comcis, including a scene of them taking part in Stump Wrestling, so I was able to piece together where that costume came from.

[BentonGrey]

Haha!  Those comics are certainly weird, and the environmentalism gets incredibly preachy and strained, but I loved them as a kid.  They were my first introduction to more serious stories and the ideas that comics could be about something relatively weighty.  I still love them, though I see their flaws a lot more clearly these days.  If I had infinite time and resources, I'd do a section of my Turtles mod exploring several of the arcs from that book.  I still love the Future Shark trilogy, and I'm very sad that the Forever War sequel never got made.

And to make it even weirder, HT, all of that super serious and mature stuff grows out of a comic that was not just in the 'toon style, but which literally started out simply adapting cartoon episodes....and then just sorta' diverged.   

[HarryTrotter]

Oh yeah,Forever War is happening. Maybe.
  http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2019/04/tmnt-adventures-forever-war-is-about-to.html?m=1
And did I mention Hitlers brain is a time traveling villain in this comic?

[HarryTrotter]

Tmnt Urban Legends V1- it's the Image series in color. Which should also tell you the main problem with this... it's a 90's Image series. The run had some great stories, but they are all in the second half, unfortunately.
So you know,cyborgs, ninja chicks in S&M gear,Lord Komodo,more cyborgs. Then Splinter becomes a vampire bat,but the search for him gets derailed into a cross-country hunt for a cyborg supervillain. Which involves team-ups with Knight Watchman,Savage Dragon and Vanguard. Its Image, alright.
I'm really interested to see how the new ending differs from the official-fan ending,anyway.

[BentonGrey]

Oh yeah,Forever War is happening. Maybe.
  http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2019/04/tmnt-adventures-forever-war-is-about-to.html?m=1
And did I mention Hitlers brain is a time traveling villain in this comic?

Whaaaaaa.......?  I keep getting my mind blown!  I would LOVE that!  Here's hoping it will come together!

Ahh yes, Raph punching Hitler, and Hitler's time-traveling brain....haha....so bizarre and great.

[HarryTrotter]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the IDW collection of Adventures skips over the visits to Tibet and Mecca. You can probably guess why in both cases.

[Silver Shocker]

Haha!  Those comics are certainly weird, and the environmentalism gets incredibly preachy and strained, but I loved them as a kid.  They were my first introduction to more serious stories and the ideas that comics could be about something relatively weighty.  I still love them, though I see their flaws a lot more clearly these days.  If I had infinite time and resources, I'd do a section of my Turtles mod exploring several of the arcs from that book.  I still love the Future Shark trilogy, and I'm very sad that the Forever War sequel never got made.

And to make it even weirder, HT, all of that super serious and mature stuff grows out of a comic that was not just in the 'toon style, but which literally started out simply adapting cartoon episodes....and then just sorta' diverged.   

I had two TMNT Adventures as a kid that gave me a very good idea of what the run was like. One was a jungle adventure with Jaguar that featured Raph in the new costume and Null, which allowed me to appreciate the reference when a new version of Null showed up in the IDW run. The other, which was the first of the two I read, was an issue that featured the reality-warping Turnstone, everyone being in outer space, Krang contacting an alien ally that was a slimy insectoid creature, and the issue started with Rocksteady dreaming of being a regular Rhino in the African Savannah. It was strange, ambitious and intriguing, and I've often been tempted to revisit that series to get a better sense of just how imaginative and ambitious it really was.

That series also gave me the miniseries adapting the pilot miniseries, which I had as a comic-and-audio-cassette combo, and I loved that thing as a kid. It had completely different music and voices from the show, and was very well executed, at least in my memory. The way Shredder's group of robots was handled in particularly was great.

Chalk that up to another new TMNT cartoon I'd like to see if they simply must make more TMNT animated content. An adaptation of that run, even if a loose one.

Tmnt Urban Legends V1- it's the Image series in color. Which should also tell you the main problem with this... it's a 90's Image series. The run had some great stories, but they are all in the second half, unfortunately.
So you know,cyborgs, ninja chicks in S&M gear,Lord Komodo,more cyborgs. Then Splinter becomes a vampire bat,but the search for him gets derailed into a cross-country hunt for a cyborg supervillain. Which involves team-ups with Knight Watchman,Savage Dragon and Vanguard. Its Image, alright.
I'm really interested to see how the new ending differs from the official-fan ending,anyway.

Another one I file under "conceptually interesting". Knight Watchmen is pretty amusing in an ironic way, since that's the name Raph used for his superhero persona in a later iteration.
Some of those concepts got solid revisiting in later iterations. "Lady Shredder" being an obvious one, but Raph as Shredder and Splinter as "Sliver" got used in TMNT 2003, and there was a female ninja in it called "Angel" (not sure if she was the inspiration for the Purple Dragon character from the 2003 and IDW run or not).

It certainly went in bold new directions, as did volume 4 of the Mirage run, which blew my mind when I read summaries of the issues online back in the day.

[HarryTrotter]

Like I said,the second half is way better. Raph becoming Shredder is probably his best story. Turtles and their allies fighting Triceratons -always cool. Btw,I guess the plan was to tie Horridus origins to Triceratons and migrate her to the TMNT supporting cast. Idk,is she still around in Savage Dragon? Is Savage Dragon still around for that matter?
Oh yeah,the ending is different from the previous one. Like the identity of Lady Shredder amoung other things. They both work for what they were supposed to do. The new one doesn't have to shuffle everyone in position for V4 so it can do it's own thing. Oh, and Leatherhead is still lost in space.

Now volume 4...it starts off interesting,but kinda goes nowhere. Even before being on definitive hiatus. Gameraph,April being a drawing...a lot of stupid things happen here.

[Silver Shocker]

Both of those runs were kinda like Jason Aaron's Avengers, at least as an outsider looking in, they're both so weird and conceptual that it definitely gets your attention and sticks in your mind. If nothing else "Kirby O'Neil" got a solid nod in the 2012. The actual character was a complete waste, but oh well.

Finally finished Power Rangers/TMNt.

-The PR as ninjas (Ninja Rangers? Ninja Storm?) led by Casey Jones (who enters the story by literally saying "Lawbreakers") and the TMNT plus April become Power Rangers. I'm choosing to believe Mikey being the Yellow Ranger without any reference to the Yellow Ranger being a girl is a reference to the fact that the Yellow Ranger was a man in the Japanese Sentai series.
-More examples of "of course you're going to do this": Bebop and Rocksteady turn giant and fight the Megazord. Shredder as the Green Ranger uses the Dragon Dagger flute to control the Dragon Zord and make it fight the Megazord piloted by the TMNT, the Power Rangers pilot a giant-sized Metal Head, and the TMNT exploit a one-line handwave to morph the Megazord into, yes, the Turtlezord. And it looks exactly like you think. Also they fight the Technodrome.
-Putty Foot Soldiers. Like you do.
-Metal Head attacks using electrical current. I'm choosing to believe that's a reference to the Turtle mech from the 2012 series.
-Stockman just barely makes it into this comic, and he looks like the original Fred Wolfe cartoon version. I think this is the only Nick-era version to use that design.
-Shredder and Rita get away and talk about bringing in Shred-Head's "Dimension X allies" (aka Krang and the Stone Warriors) and then the comic ends. In one of the most blatant sequel hooks ever. The lack of any Krang whatsoever in the PR/TMNT comic, gotta say, that's a missed opportunity right there.

Kimberly: Thanks for your help, April and for filling in.
April: Are you kidding? Thank you! I got to be the hero instead of just reporting on it. And bonus....I look fantastic in pink.

April in pink you say? It's been done. More than once, in fact.

This thing is absolutely begging on its knees to have an animated movie made of it.

Next is the 5th Turtle's 1st mini...should be some kind of interesting. Checking out the trade....the mini was only 3 issues long, so they padded out the trade with TMNT Universe #6-9. Since I already read those, this should be one breezy read. 

The next trade is set to arrive in late April, so that's plenty of time to read other stuff.

[HarryTrotter]

IMO Volume 4 went too far into SF. Eastman and Laird work amazingly as a team,but solo they either go too far into SF (Laird) or into Frank Miller-isms (Eastman). And Turtles work best when they strike a balance.
Also my favorite moment in V4 is Leo commenting why they got different tattoo's: "Utroms couldn't tells us apart. We thought about getting different colored bandanas,but that would be dorky." Like dude,you got here on a Playmates Turtlebike,you don't have the moral highground.

[Silver Shocker]

IMO Volume 4 went too far into SF. Eastman and Laird work amazingly as a team,but solo they either go too far into SF (Laird) or into Frank Miller-isms (Eastman). And Turtles work best when they strike a balance.

That's a good take on it. And a big part of why I appreciated the original Mirage run, but feel basically every direct adaptation improved on it. The Turtles' personalities are incredibly dry in the original run. That's something the adaptations added that definitely gave the entire franchise its legs.

Also my favorite moment in V4 is Leo commenting why they got different tattoo's: "Utroms couldn't tells us apart. We thought about getting different colored bandanas,but that would be dorky." Like dude,you got here on a Playmates Turtlebike,you don't have the moral highground.

Did not know about that, and yeah, that feels like some serious sour grapes. I seem to recall at least one of those guys had some mixed feelings over the years about selling out with TMNT.

[HarryTrotter]

It was Mikey, actually. Damn,they really need different colored bandanas.
I assume this was intentional comedic hypocrisy since by this point,Mirage Turtles also walked around in broad daylight and sold toys.
Still,I don't really hate V4,it had plenty of interesting ideas. And I would really like to see it finished one day. If nothing else,the original turtles deserve a proper ending.
About the personalities,you are spot on,the OG Turtles don't evolve much as characters over time. How many times has Raph learned to control his anger over the years...

[Silver Shocker]

Which is one of the reasons I keep saying Donnie is best turtle these days. Whatever issues I have with the Nick era, and I have mine, they've made a concentrated effort to give Donnie more plots and content of his own and make him a lot funnier. Then Rise went too far and made him actively unlikable, but that's Rise for you.

[HarryTrotter]

Im back to reread Tales of the TMNT V2. Which I found to be a mixed bag the first time around. Also,Im beginning to think Mirage guys had the attention span of a goldfish since a whole lot of characters get introduced,teased for a sequel and forgotten about. And whole arcs (like the Foot Mystics) never get resolved. And not because of cancelation,I mean the comic ran for 6 years,there was time.
Anyway,Shredder coming back as a shark demon was awesome. And the issue with Klunk dying is still freaking hard to read.

[Silver Shocker]

Anyway,Shredder coming back as a shark demon was awesome.

I remember looking that one up back in the day and found it, along with the "Worms of Madness" (which was partially adapted into the 2003 cartoon) bizarrely fascinating. That, along with the Rat King as a deranged horror villain called "The Monster" showed the more freakishly sinister side of TMNT.

And the issue with Klunk dying is still freaking hard to read.

I can't recall if I knew about that one, but I would imagine it would be hard to get through. I had to have my favorite kitty put down last year and it is an emotionally draining ordeal.

[HarryTrotter]

I should add the the entire first volume of Tales got adapted into episodes of the 4Kids cartoon. Outside the issue with Complete Carnage and Radical, because they were not a thing in that continuity. "I,Monster" remains one of the best TMNT stories ever.

With a lot of V2,I felt they were chasing the next Leatherhead or Rat King. For example,Cha Ocho is built up as the next big supporting character,but he never does anything. Leo gives him a scar because "vengeance is not the Bushido way" (irony is lost on Leo),and then he will be kinda angry at Leo for much of the Volume 4. And go drinking with Raph once.

Something of a common complaint is that the Mirage continuity doesn't have interesting villains (or even a rogues gallery)...it does,if only the writers gave them a second apperence.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,Volume 2 of Tales was a wild ride. It had a few bad issues (Donny trying to bust up a WoW gold farming sweat shop) but most of it was pretty damn great. Too bad the Gang Wars arc never got finished (They introduced Hun and a bunch of other criminal bosses)...IDW,please hire Tristan Jones.
There were several crossovers with Wild West C.O.W-boys. They throw in Cudley because nostalgia.
Similar to villains...Mirage turtles don't really have a supporting cast outside of Casey,April and Shadow. You think somebody like Hattori (introduced in v1#9) would make more then 2-3 apperences. You would think that the niece of Hamato Yoshi would be important. You would think...

[HarryTrotter]

Back to IDW and issue #115. The big combat we were promised is pretty disappointing. And gets cut short by Jennika challenging Bebop and Rocksteady to a Battle of the bands. Which will also stop the bad future. 🙄
And they are doing that in the next issue. This is more random wackiness then Spencer's Spider-man.
The letter page is pretty funny. Somebody congratulates them on their masterful political analogies. And the answer is that it wasn't intentional. Come on,at least be honest about what you did here, nobody will buy that explanation.

[Silver Shocker]

So I haven't progressed through the newest TMNT trades I have right now (the main book and Batman/TMNT Vol. 3) so I can't say much about them, except that Mutant Town has REALLY killed my enthusiasm for IDW's TMNT run in a deeply disappointing way. I tend to forget often that I even HAVE the trades, let alone that I'm not actively reading them, thus other stuff gets the attention instead.

It's a shame, because the lead-up to Mutant Town, while a LOT to get through, was also really rather good.

It's too long, the changing creative teams hurt it, as I've said before, Jennika ends up being too much of a segmented character and not enough of "The fifth turtle", as in part of that five-person team, and while the three issue Jennika mini, while not bad, really didn't help matters.

Bebop and Rocksteady show up pretending to be cultists at the end of the mini, complete with robes, as part of a handoff for a bogus mutant cure everyone wants to get their hands on, and not only do the characters never question this, not only are Bebop and Rocksteady, traditionally dumber than mud, smart enough to pull off this wholly unnecessary con like they couldn't just brute force their way to getting what they want like they've done before in this run, not only are we never told why they're even going to this much trouble, but they job horribly as Jennika jumps over and around them to get the McGuffin and leave. While Bebop and Rocksteady look pretty good in the art style of that miniseries, it's a pretty weak showing by them and feels like a stunt to get them in the book to boost sales (even though them being there is a surprise reveal). It doesn't leave me chomping at the bit for the Battle of the Bands in the main book.

The trade I have does feature nice art, Karai finally shows up again, and ends with the reveal of Tokka and Rahzar, who I gotta admit, do look real nice in that art style. But as you said earlier, the book drags its feet getting to them.

The letter page is pretty funny. Somebody congratulates them on their masterful political analogies. And the answer is that it wasn't intentional. Come on,at least be honest about what you did here, nobody will buy that explanation.

I'm a bit curious, since I read the trades and they don't include the letters. I'm tempted to see if I can track down a version of the book that includes the letters to see that to see what I think. It's certainly possible. The editors and the writers are not the same people (assuming the editor answers the letters) and the Transformers: Beast Wars book by IDW is, as indicated clearly in its letters page, shockingly, edited by people who don't know the first thing about Transformers. 

Batman/TMNT Vol. 3:

It's Amalgam mashed up with Crisis on Infinite Earths, dubbed "Crisis in a Half Shell". Art's a mixed bag, but otherwise kinda neat. Harley Quinn is Karai, which looks cool but character wise is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Clayface and Croc are Bebop and Rocksteady, and in what I can only call laziness, Deadshot is also here as a random Foot Ninja who is also Deadshot, so it's Deadshot with a red and gold costume. Working for Shredder/Joker. I was baffled by it then, and I'm baffled by it now.

Krang's robot body is the Anti-Monitor's armor, which is a great idea and looks less impressive than you would think in the comic's art style.
The Technodrome in this book is upgraded into the "Ultra Technodrome" and I don't exactly know why.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, I have not been loving the Mutant Town direction.  There are some good bits, but in general, I feel like this dilutes their world a bit too much.  I can't quite put my finger on what isn't working, but the stories aren't singing like they have been, and I feel like Jennika as a turtle is way less interesting than she was as a young woman seeking meaning.  At least a small part of that is probably that her color is too similar to Mikey's, so I lose track of who is who, and she sort of blends in to the background of the others.  I'm still enjoying the series, but I'm not loving it the way I was.