A Batman question: Selective surgery

[thalaw2]

Well...I did some bar hopping a couple of weeks ago and ran into a guy who said he used to be a professional wrester (I think he said he was a Von Erich).  He was telling me that back when he was in the business that guys trained really hard  to be tough instead of taking roids.  Some of the hard training included selective surgery to have certain nerve endings removed so that they could not feel pain and being beaten in certain parts of the body to kill nerves...forget about meditation and focusing...bring a knife and rip the parts out.

I got to thinking that it's highly possible (in comics...I ain't crazy) that Batman had some of the selective surgery to be a better fighter which would give him a decided advantage over someone like Wolverine, who can't have said surgery because of his healing factor.  Batman could keep Wolvie in a certain amount of pain throughout the fight.  Likewise if Bats had had the surgery he should be able to take down other fighters like DD, BP, Cap, etc.  Heck, it may be a requirement to be part of the Bat-family that you have some nerve endings ripped out.  Thoughts? 

[marhawkman]

Nah. It's not as great as it seems. It leads to a form of nerve damage that impairs your sense of touch as well as cutting off pain, permanently. If it's not done just right it'll also impair your range of motion too.

[DrMike2000]

I think there was a guy in Buck Rogers TV series in the 70s, called Tiger Man (?) who was like a big dumb bodyguard who'd had all his nerve endings cut. Bald, moustache, walking around in his space undies and t-shirt.

As a result Buck and Wilma's phaser ray gun things didn't work on him.

It doesn't really fit for Batman somehow. Its a bit too brutal compared to mental discipline and the odd painkiller here and there (as seen in Frank Miller's Dark Knight).

[thalaw2]

The how would Bats fair against a hardcore wrestler like...Mick Foley, who is nearly impervious to pain?  These guys know how to fight and they can use taking a blow o their advantage. 

The guy i was talking to at the bar said he had all his front teeth kicked out (non-Kayfabe) in one match, because he made a mistake in taking a blow, but continued on to win.

[stumpy]

I would think that, for someone at Batman's level, pain is useful. If you don't let it overwhelm you, pain is information about what attacks are getting through (doing actual damage) versus ones that are just grazing you. After all, not feeling pain from an attack doesn't mean the attack isn't doing damage that might make the recipient unable to effectively use some of his fighting techniques.

Someone with Batman's discipline can understand what the pain means, without letting it take him out of the fight, and he can adjust his technique accordingly. A skilled combatant would want to know "this arm is hurt and won't block as fast; I need to change up my defenses." Or, even know that he isn't hurt as badly as the attack might have indicated and react accordingly, as in "He thinks this arm is out of the fight, so I'll draw his attention with a couple feints with the other and then surprise him."

IMO, as obsessive as obsessive as Batman is about information, it's hard to imagine he would choose to have it unavailable rather than maintain the discipline to deal with it and use it.

BTW, in the first Dark Knight Returns series, didn't Batman fight a mutant who was essentially impervious to pain? This is a long time ago, but my recollection is that the mutant was stronger and faster, but Batman ended up disabling him, and the mutant basically didn't recognize what was happening to him until it was too late.

[Mr. Hamrick]

Well there is one of the Von Erich family still alive from the old days.  Though the late Kerry Von Erich's daughter got into the business about a year and a half or so ago. 

As for Batman, I don't think it makes sense.  We've seen Batman in pain and being tended to by Alfred (and by Leslie Thompkins) too often.

[marhawkman]

The how would Bats fair against a hardcore wrestler like...Mick Foley, who is nearly impervious to pain?  These guys know how to fight and they can use taking a blow o their advantage.

that's the sort of guy I imagine Bats to be. He's gotten beaten on so much that it doesn't faze him any more.

[thalaw2]

So if someone were to smack an uncowled batman on the head with....a steel chair what would happen?

[marhawkman]

Normal human strength? Slightly dazed, very POed.

[DrMike2000]

BTW, in the first Dark Knight Returns series, didn't Batman fight a mutant who was essentially impervious to pain? This is a long time ago, but my recollection is that the mutant was stronger and faster, but Batman ended up disabling him, and the mutant basically didn't recognize what was happening to him until it was too late.

He was the leader of the Mutants street gang, just a big guy pumped up on steroids and who knows what else with lots of fighting experience. All the stuff about him being impervious to pain was just Bats' internal monologue rather than a superpower or physical condition of any kind. He was just tough as nails, young and in his prime, and very possibly on drugs like PCP.

"You dont get it! This isn't a mudpit, boy, its an operating table. And I'm the surgeon!"

No-one writes 'em like Frank Miller!


In response to the chair question, I'm sure Batman's practiced fighting under the effects of concussion, just in case.

[Alaric]

Besides, a portion of Batman's place in comic book mythology is that he's supposed to be the ultimate example of what a normal, non-super-powered individual can become. Within the context of the DCU, the difference between this kind of surgery and, say, cybernetic bioengineering is entirely a matter of degree. It would turn Batman into what's sometimes been termed an "altered human". It simply doesn't fit his concept.

[Zippo]

Batman has also studied under some of the most ridiculous martial artists out there, off in far flung places in the world. He's most likely learned various mind over matter like methods for being unphased by pain. Isn't it the shaolin monks that pick up the pot of boiling water using their forearms on the hot metal? It seems likely that Batman would learn some of those techniques.

[thalaw2]

Batman has also studied under some of the most ridiculous martial artists out there, off in far flung places in the world. He's most likely learned various mind over matter like methods for being unphased by pain. Isn't it the shaolin monks that pick up the pot of boiling water using their forearms on the hot metal? It seems likely that Batman would learn some of those techniques.

The secret of the Shaolin monks is practice and from all that practice they probably have made parts of their bodies numb.  The wrestler told me that he would take hits from Kindo sticks to numb parts of his body to pain and have ribs broken on purpose so they would heal stronger than they were before....it's pretty intense...but this is the secret to being able to take large amounts of pain.

[Tomato]

This thread is silly. Pain serves a significant purpose, it is a warning to an individual that something is wrong... like those flashing red "this building is self destructing" lights in movies. The fact that you have covered that blinking red light with a dishtowel does not mean the problem is gone, merely that you're just an idiot who won't find out that the building is blowing up until he's in 50,000 pieces. Or, y'know, you've got a huge tapeworm in your chest that you didn't even know about because you couldn't feel the SEARING PAIN it would otherwise cause.

I think someone needs to watch more House MD.

[thalaw2]

Some people who train not to feel pain don't know there is something wrong until they go to the hospital.  They admit that going to the hospital, as the result of some accident, saved their life. 

[murs47]

Epinephrine plays a large role in "fight or flight" situations. Enough of the hormone can be pumped into the system via the adrenal gland to disregard any pain during the "fight" or "flight." Plus these are fictional characters, just give them the benefit of the doubt that they're a little more resilient than reality would allow.

[JeyNyce]

All of your answers are right here:

Becoming Batman