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Author Topic: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...  (Read 4684 times)

Offline The Hitman

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For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« on: June 15, 2009, 02:21:26 PM »
http://www.majorspoilers.com/archives/16681.htm/

Why can't Marvel make a decision ans STICK with it.

Spoiler: ShowHide
I mean, I was just as shocked and resistant to the idea of Steve Rogers being offed and Bucky stepping in. But- it was a decision that Marvel made. It should have, if not perminant (because what in comics is perminant?), at least had a little more clout than it ultimately did. He was dead for, what? Like a year? Less?


I don't usually get bent out of shape about comic stuff, but...

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Offline Previsionary

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 02:44:56 PM »
Does this lead to him being back alive in regular continuity? One couldn't tell he was dead with all the minis, one-shots, and flashbacks Steve appeared in the whole year. So... he died, but he never went missing like the other dead characters did. He was always around in some form while Bucky was maintained in a single book until recently. Anyway, I'll see how this develops before saying anything.
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Offline thalaw2

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 03:18:31 PM »
We all knew this was coming sooner or later.  I just hope its executed well.
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Offline BWPS

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 03:26:09 PM »
So far I've only read the series from beginning to the first two "Death of" trades but there hasn't been any part of this book that I haven't liked. From the outside looking in, you think "So what, EVERYONE who dies has really been frozen?!" but actually reading it keeps your interest. But this isn't something I didn't expect. It's comic books, so of course he won't stay dead that long. Also Tony and SHIELD have always kept his death a mystery. Have they even shown the real body? I am curious to see how it will go down, I hope it's a great read.
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Offline lugaru

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 03:50:07 PM »
At some point somebody had a frozen Steve Rogers in a comic but dont quote me as to in which, I have not read cap (or anything else) for a while and I'm just now going back and reading 'em online, although hopefully there's no gaps in the cap series like there is in the Iron Fist one (marvel.com needs to get on that).

Offline gengoro

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 09:04:50 PM »
Feel your pain Hitman. This has always irked me about a lot of super hero books.  Personally I never buy "death of" books.

Offline herodad1

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 09:43:27 PM »
glad he's coming back.theres only one captain america and thats steve rogers!i know theres alot of people who likes the new guy but theres nothing like the original.clark kent is superman,bruce wayne is batman,peter parker is spiderman,thor is...err...thor,tony stark is ironman,bruce banner is hulk, ect...!it just isnt the same.

Offline captmorgan72

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 12:16:45 AM »
We all knew this was coming sooner or later.  I just hope its executed well.

I agree with this guy.

Offline Blkcasanova247

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 02:00:10 AM »
glad he's coming back.theres only one captain america and thats steve rogers!i know theres alot of people who likes the new guy but theres nothing like the original.clark kent is superman,bruce wayne is batman,peter parker is spider-man,thor is...err...thor,tony stark is ironman,bruce banner is hulk, ect...!it just isnt the same.
I agree with this guy! ;) And besides it was always a given that Steve Rogers was coming back! And thank god for that. I have enjoyed reading the Bucky stories that Bru has been writing...but there was never any doubt that his role weaing "the flag" was gonna be short lived...nobody even refered to him as Cap...uniform or not. There's only one Captain America and that guy's name is Steve Rogers! :thumbup:
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Offline Jakew

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 04:45:11 AM »
Obviously Steve Rogers was never going to stay dead ... and Ed Brubaker's run on Captain America has been amazing. I don't think anyone expected Bucky's Cap to work so well.

Steve's death was great, and I'm sure his rebirth will be handled well too.

I don't mind death and rebirths, as long as they are well-written. For example, there is a difference between the way Bucky was revived and Jason Todd.

Offline NeoDarke

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 05:37:48 AM »
Well, I at least hope Bucky gets a better "codename".
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Offline lugaru

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 12:36:41 PM »
Yeah, I think the Steve Rogers thing was like a breath holding contest... the longer they kept him dead, the cooler it seemed, but as soon as they gast for air and bring him back the show is over.

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 01:21:44 PM »
Bah...and that's just in general.
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Offline The Hitman

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 01:28:44 PM »
For me, it's not about keeping Steve dead forever... we ALL knew that wasn't gonna happen. It's just... Cap's death was such a BIG deal... and yet, he's "back" roughly a year later. And that's if you don't count Avengers/Invaders, which has been going on for a while now. Just irks me, is all.

Offline lugaru

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 01:41:32 PM »
He actually died more than 2 years ago (march 07) but time flies in comics, seeing how it takes 6 months to get any story done these days.

Offline marhawkman

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2009, 07:09:34 PM »
At some point somebody had a frozen Steve Rogers in a comic but dont quote me as to in which, I have not read cap (or anything else) for a while and I'm just now going back and reading 'em online, although hopefully there's no gaps in the cap series like there is in the Iron Fist one (marvel.com needs to get on that).
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Offline AncientSpirit

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2009, 08:56:46 PM »
Well they had to bring him back if they want to make a Captain America movie.  ;)

I stopped reading Cap the moment they killed him, just as I stopped reading Batman the moment they killed Bruce Wayne.  (Although I am kinda interested in picking up that book since they've decided Dick Grayson will wear the cowl until Bruce's inevitable return.) 

I am a bit of a sucker for the comeback from the dead books, though.   :thumbup: Superman got me first.   Then Green Lantern.  Now the Flash.  And I like that they've brought back Conner.

But like many of you, I'm just tired of all the hyped up manipulation over death issues. :angry:

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Offline Zippo

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2009, 05:46:13 AM »
Well they had to bring him back if they want to make a Captain America movie.  ;)

I stopped reading Cap the moment they killed him, just as I stopped reading Batman the moment they killed Bruce Wayne.  (Although I am kinda interested in picking up that book since they've decided Dick Grayson will wear the cowl until Bruce's inevitable return.) 

I am a bit of a sucker for the comeback from the dead books, though.   :thumbup: Superman got me first.   Then Green Lantern.  Now the Flash.  And I like that they've brought back Conner.

But like many of you, I'm just tired of all the hyped up manipulation over death issues. :angry:



I'm entirely the opposite. As a non american, Captain America was essentially the most boring overwhelmingly inconsequential superhero to me, until he died. I started reading (and loving) the Captain America series pretty much directly after his death.

In my opinion, this is a terrible decision on Marvel's part, and I'm likely going to drop the book if/when he Steve does come back.

Offline cmdrkoenig67

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2009, 12:16:01 PM »
Truthfully, I've never been a big fan of Cap...But I thought bringing back Bucky, Killing Steve and replacing him with Bucky was all just major stupidity on Marvel's part (not to mention, horribly convoluted).  How many times has Marvel said some event was going to be major and not going to change ("dead means dead", Spidey's avatar Mutations, M-Day, Secret Invasion, etc...) and then a year or so later, everything changes?  

Bucky should have remained dead (does anybody remain dead, anymore?), AFAIC...I also believe Steve can be written as an interesting character, if the writer is actually up to the task.

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« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 12:23:18 PM by cmdrkoenig67 »

Offline bearded

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2009, 12:44:17 PM »
don't forget all the heroes die and heroes reborn written and drawned by liefield.

Offline Previsionary

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2009, 01:31:24 PM »

Bucky should have remained dead (does anybody remain dead, anymore?), AFAIC...I also believe Steve can be written as an interesting character, if the writer is actually up to the task.

Dana

But, Daaaaana, I like Bucky more than Steve... except when Bucky is written by Bendis (see New Avengers). Hrm... I also seem to hate when Bendis writes Steve... odd. I should ponder on this.
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Offline AfghanAnt

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2009, 03:16:31 PM »
Blah. I had thought Marvel would go the "first Captain America" route and bring back Isaiah but I was wrong.

I'm a little annoyed that Steve is coming back so soon. I really like BuckyCap and honestly I was hoping he would be Cap for at least a couple more years. Captain America is still selling just as well as it was when Steve was the lead character and like Prev said with all the one-shots, mini, and alternate realities I didn't even miss Steve.

Offline Mystik

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2009, 05:47:55 PM »
I'm  kinda curious on how many of you guys have been actually reading the storyline. If you have you probably would have known that the writer has been setting this story up from day one. the writer never intended for bucky to be  a permanent cap, he always intended to have steve out of commission for short amount of time (either by death or other means). then the civil war came up and and a convenient tie in came into play. this received unexpected coverage and popularity - hence the lengthened time period of bucky as cap. my opinion is the writer is telling a story  let him tell it. Ed brought Bucky back , Ed "killed" steve , Ed made bucky cap and now he's bringing steve back . this  is not marvel editorial telling writers what to what write to sell to sell books (bart allen flash), this a writer with a good story that marvel is trying to squeeze sales out of by over promoting and stretching it out. I don't think ed should delay his story because people wanna see more bucky as cap, when he was the one who brought him back in the first place and probably has plans to further develop him as his own character and not cap lite

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Offline murs47

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2009, 06:42:50 PM »

Offline herodad1

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2009, 07:05:37 PM »
well i am a AMERICAN and when they killed off the captain america it ran through me.cap was from a simpler time when people stood fast in they're belief in GOD and being an american was a proud thing.a time when sitting around the dinner table as a family was an every night thing.look at america now.cap could have faked his death because of what his america was turning into.he needed a break from the hate,corruption, and mis-trust we have in our fellow americans.CAPTAIN AMERICA stood by his beliefs.he was a symbol of what everyone should strive to be.if more people tried harder at being a better person the world would be a better place to live.no matter where you live!   GOD bless the world( not just america ) and bring back Steve Rogers!  "NUFF SAID"!

Offline lugaru

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2009, 08:35:39 PM »
My feel of the character was always different... I am legally an American because of my american mother (I was born in Mexico) and I've only been in the country for 7 years but Captain America for me was always more of a "Captain American". In other words he represented his views of how the country should be, rather than protecting the goverment. If they where forcing heroes to register, somebody like Superman would have been totally pro registration (see stuff like Dark Knight Returns, non cannon since it is in the future but dude is a boyscout) while Cap is happy to go underground. It is not the first time he fought the law, but this time the law won.

I honestly dont care for any of that god, guns, anglo saxon pride or any of that and I dont feel that the character has ever represented it (heck, where is his gun?). For me he is about progress, about freedom and justice. In terms of politics I would place him as a Libertarian or maybe Constitutionalist bordering on Anarchist, although those Constitutionalist guys tend to creep me out... but yeah, I would see him voting for Ron Paul if given the chance, especially the Ultimate Cap. I know we dont talk politics here but I'm a bit of a politics junky and I've thought a lot about the caps political afiliation, together with some other characters.

Offline cmdrkoenig67

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2009, 10:34:53 PM »
don't forget all the heroes die and heroes reborn written and drawned by liefield.

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Offline Blkcasanova247

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2009, 11:29:54 PM »
Captain America for me was always more of a "Captain American". In other words he represented his views of how the country should be, rather than protecting the goverment. If they where forcing heroes to register, somebody like Superman would have been totally pro registration (see stuff like Dark Knight Returns, non cannon since it is in the future but dude is a boyscout) while Cap is happy to go underground. It is not the first time he fought the law, but this time the law won.

I honestly dont care for any of that god, guns, anglo saxon pride or any of that and I dont feel that the character has ever represented it (heck, where is his gun?). For me he is about progress, about freedom and justice. In terms of politics I would place him as a Libertarian or maybe Constitutionalist bordering on Anarchist

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Offline President Raygun

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 01:59:16 AM »
Forget Cap, they need to resurrect Nomad. j/k (sort of)   :D

Offline Gremlin

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Re: For Those Of You Who Don't Like Change...
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2009, 06:23:57 AM »
Forget Cap, they need to resurrect Nomad. j/k (sort of)   :D

I don't think that fits with the zeitgeist though. Nomad made sense in an era of disillusionment with America as a whole. Now people still exalt the ideals of the nation, and bemoan its perceived inability to follow through with those ideals. That's why a rebellious Cap in Civil War made sense: "This is America, land of the free, and we stand for the highest good, and allowing ourselves to be anything less than that is unacceptable."