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Waitaminute--Norman Osborn?

Started by Spring Heeled Jack, February 20, 2009, 08:28:14 PM

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Spring Heeled Jack

Norman Osborn is now tentatively a hero, and he administers the Avengers, and he's in charge of SHIELD?

They'll just crank out anything these days, won't they?

murs47

It's actually been pretty enjoyable so far. And, it slaps the "heroes" back down to underdogs, since it's the bad guys that are running the show now.

Everyone loves an underdog. ;)

GhostMachine

#2
Yeah, it makes no sense whatsoever. But I'm of a mind that Marvel is being run by fanboys rather than people who care about putting out good comics and telling good stories, anyway. I used to be a hardcore Marvel Zombie, but I'm actually only reading two Marvel titles these days, and one is a maxi-series, not a regular title. (Captain America and Avengers/Invaders) I guess I'm now the DC equivalent of a Marvel Zombie, since I'm reading more of their titles.

Its not S.H.I.E.L.D. Osborn is leading, but a group called H.A.M.M.E.R. that's replaced them, if I remember right. Personally, I'm hoping Marvel has Nick Fury gather some renegade former S.H.I.E.L.D. agents, spies within H.A.M.M.E.R. and heroes Fury is allied with (Bucky America, Sharon Carter, the Falcon, Black Widow, and a few others) to form a new, undeground S.H.I.E.L.D. that kicks butt first, takes names later.


Talavar

Yeah, it's pretty dumb.  Norman Osborn killed the Skrull Queen in Secret Invasion, so for some reason that makes him king of the world now (he narrowly beat out Wolverine to kill her, and we lost out on the S.H.I.E.L.D. replacement being called C.L.A.W.). 

Also of dubious sense - SHIELD was an international organization, right?  Yet a fully American institution is replacing it, at the direction of the American government.

And is it just me, or is Marvel about 2 years behind on the government=evil bandwagon?

Spring Heeled Jack

I'm under the impression that Marvel's editorial staff and top writers just loaf around Quesada's office, eating junk food and watching Top Chef until one of them blurts out "Hey, I had an idea! What about...?" And the rest cheer and scramble to affix their own supplementary half-baked ideas until the idea's blossomed into a colossally overblown crossover "event" with no fewer than 36 chapters and 12 one-shot, high-cost tie-ins.

But that's just my imagination. I'm sure they don't all watch Top Chef.

Failed_Hero

Quote from: Talavar on February 21, 2009, 02:35:25 AM
Yeah, it's pretty dumb.  Norman Osborn killed the Skrull Queen in Secret Invasion, so for some reason that makes him king of the world now (he narrowly beat out Wolverine to kill her, and we lost out on the S.H.I.E.L.D. replacement being called C.L.A.W.). 

Also of dubious sense - SHIELD was an international organization, right?  Yet a fully American institution is replacing it, at the direction of the American government.

And is it just me, or is Marvel about 2 years behind on the government=evil bandwagon?

Tavalor, asking for continuity in Marvel these days is like asking Pat Robertson to explain evolution, it can't happen because they only have vauge idea of what it is and have willingness to educate themselves for fear of understanding it (this is coming from Christian moderate).

SHIELD stopped being an international agency the moment secret war was published and the President appointed Maria Hill as the director.  (Something the UN is supposed to decide on the Security Council I believe). Marvel had any ideas about holding on the a loyal fan base Aunt May would be a corpse (not from being shot but from her heart attack in the nineties) Spider-Man would be married to MJ. Wolverine would only be unbeatable in his book instead of everywhere else. The Avengers the Real Avengers (yes I know there is constant disput and people have their favorite teams of the rotating roster but I mean, Wasp, Antman, Iron Man, Thor, Cap (Steve or Bucky), Vision, Mockingbird, Hawkeye, and Scarlet Witch) would have united in this Skrull invasion taken charge of the initiative and kicked Osborn's green behind, back to grave where he belongs.

Granted having a maniac like Norman is charge makes of interesting reading especially in Iron Man now, but this business of the Dark Avenger's is rubish.  All stemming from the fact the Joe Q. simply didn't like the policies of the last eight years of the presidency.  Neither did a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, I just wish that politics would only impact the real world (preferring season six when Ronald Regan was a roomate) and not my fantasy realm I choose to enjoy and escape to when the real world sucks.
At the end of the day all that matter is that I tried, right?

Previsionary

#6
Quote from: Talavar on February 21, 2009, 02:35:25 AM
Yeah, it's pretty dumb.  Norman Osborn killed the Skrull Queen in Secret Invasion, so for some reason that makes him king of the world now (he narrowly beat out Wolverine to kill her, and we lost out on the S.H.I.E.L.D. replacement being called C.L.A.W.). 

They were prepping up Norman to take over the power role for awhile though. The last pieces to his plans were set up in Deadpool, which gave him the information he needed to take out the Skrull Queen...which leads us to Deadpool #6-9 and Thunderbolts #130-131. Yes...a crossover! Regardless, it's been shown that not everyone trusts Norman and some people in the MU wonder how he got the position and are trying to look into ways to take him down and this includes Tony who's already prevented Norman from getting his hands on registration info.

Quote from: Failed_Hero on February 21, 2009, 04:51:37 PM
Tavalor, asking for continuity in Marvel these days is like asking Pat Robertson to explain evolution, it can't happen because they only have vauge idea of what it is and have willingness to educate themselves for fear of understanding it (this is coming from Christian moderate).

SHIELD stopped being an international agency the moment secret war was published and the President appointed Maria Hill as the director.  (Something the UN is supposed to decide on the Security Council I believe). Marvel had any ideas about holding on the a loyal fan base Aunt May would be a corpse (not from being shot but from her heart attack in the nineties) Spider-Man would be married to MJ. Wolverine would only be unbeatable in his book instead of everywhere else. The Avengers the Real Avengers (yes I know there is constant disput and people have their favorite teams of the rotating roster but I mean, Wasp, Antman, Iron Man, Thor, Cap (Steve or Bucky), Vision, Mockingbird, Hawkeye, and Scarlet Witch) would have united in this Skrull invasion taken charge of the initiative and kicked Osborn's green behind, back to grave where he belongs.

Granted having a maniac like Norman is charge makes of interesting reading especially in Iron Man now, but this business of the Dark Avenger's is rubish.  All stemming from the fact the Joe Q. simply didn't like the policies of the last eight years of the presidency.  Neither did a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, I just wish that politics would only impact the real world (preferring season six when Ronald Regan was a roomate) and not my fantasy realm I choose to enjoy and escape to when the real world sucks.

Continuity of late has been pretty ok in the marvelverse outside of a few select books and the overuse of certain characters. You can at least gauge where everything is supposed to go. I'd think you'd have a better example of continuity flubs in current DC, though no company has been 100% with it of late.

On the same token, companies should be expanding their base, not just pandering to the "loyals". The loyals have split ideas of what they want from the universe in general, so it's up to the writers/editors to make solid decisions based on where they want the character to go. Sadly, certain actions by those in power have left several characters in horrible positions. I'm refraining from commenting on Joe Q and his decisions (of late) because...I don't have many nice things to say. ^^.
Disappear when you least expe--

Failed_Hero

Prev,

I agree with what you said about pandering to loyals because in the you do end stuck in same place because nothing changes, however, you don't get new readers by butchering the stand-by's and re-writing the status quo with every event.  I want one year where events didn't exist, the companies pushed a team, a couple of titles.  Introduce new characters that are of some significance.  Gravity in marvel is perfect example, Mckeever did great job of introducing a Peter Park Esqe character, and the have bounced this poor character from everywhere from Annihilation, to the Initiative, to who knows where else.  Marvel had good opportunity to maneuver new and interesting character who didn't need to put Wolverine on the cover for me to buy.

I feel that if Marvel wants to get new readers a new paradigm needs to be used in creative and editing, the current one makes me long for the days of storied being told in 100 different titles.
At the end of the day all that matter is that I tried, right?

bredon7777

DC is worse than Marvel on continuity, sure.  But when it comes to Buggering the Canine with their IP, Marvel takes the cake easily.  Marvel titles have consistently dropped in quality with every new event, starting with Civil War.

That said, I like the idea of Dark Avengers. Course, mind you, I liked it better when it first came out and was called Thunderbolts.
"I can't wait to hear this guy's monologue. 'I am the Palindrome! Feel my power! Power my feel! Palindrome the am I!' Peter Piping weirdos." - The Middleman

Spring Heeled Jack

You read my mind. I guess they assume most readers' memories don't go back that far, so Dark Avengers is a new and exciting concept.

Well, I guess if the Dark Avengers are still cold-hearted villains in the long run, it might be a twist. A rewarmed idea, but with a twist.

Previsionary

Quote from: bredon7777 on February 23, 2009, 03:26:36 PM
DC is worse than Marvel on continuity, sure.  But when it comes to Buggering the Canine with their IP, Marvel takes the cake easily.  Marvel titles have consistently dropped in quality with every new event, starting with Civil War.

That said, I like the idea of Dark Avengers. Course, mind you, I liked it better when it first came out and was called Thunderbolts.

I would have went with HoM myself; though, Civil War did have a more widespread effect.
Disappear when you least expe--

tommyboy

Quote from: Previsionary on February 23, 2009, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: bredon7777 on February 23, 2009, 03:26:36 PM
DC is worse than Marvel on continuity, sure.  But when it comes to Buggering the Canine with their IP, Marvel takes the cake easily.  Marvel titles have consistently dropped in quality with every new event, starting with Civil War.

That said, I like the idea of Dark Avengers. Course, mind you, I liked it better when it first came out and was called Thunderbolts.

I would have went with HoM myself; though, Civil War did have a more widespread effect.

The rot started with Avengers disassembled, in my humble opinion. But I'd agree that in terms of Big Event Crossovers, HoM is where the putrefaction became apparent.
Marvel seem unable to end anything well. It's always a big build up that usually ends with an absurdly rushed, contrived and unbelievable (even for comics) ending.