Topic: Mod Discussion

[bearded]

kk!  thank you.  want to clarify.  i didn't mean disrespect.  don't mean to push the matter.
i was angry, said some crazy things, and i feel i 'came around sooner', as you put it.
i came around sooner, and my post is there for anyone who also comes around sooner.  or later.  it will be there in a month.
no agenda.  just seeking a deeper understanding so that we can achieve a harmonious group mentality which has been so prevalant in this group for so many years.  overall i mean.

[tommyboy]

kk!  thank you.  want to clarify.  i didn't mean disrespect.  don't mean to push the matter.
i was angry, said some crazy things, and i feel i 'came around sooner', as you put it.
i came around sooner, and my post is there for anyone who also comes around sooner.  or later.  it will be there in a month.
no agenda.  just seeking a deeper understanding so that we can achieve a harmonious group mentality which has been so prevalant in this group for so many years.  overall i mean.

Hey, if I thought we'd get anywhere, I'd start up again tonight.
Maybe if I type the same stuff out but in a much bigger font, all-caps, I'll win...

[doctorchallenger]

Good exchange. A thought - how about a community rules forum - a place where we can debate these issues - not a Thunderdome per se, but maybe a place where we can channel such discussion - complete with pertinant stickies aobut existing agreed upon rules.  Maybe some redundacnies will develop, but maybe that might help avoid (some) future altercations

[bearded]

kk!  thank you.  want to clarify.  i didn't mean disrespect.  don't mean to push the matter.
i was angry, said some crazy things, and i feel i 'came around sooner', as you put it.
i came around sooner, and my post is there for anyone who also comes around sooner.  or later.  it will be there in a month.
no agenda.  just seeking a deeper understanding so that we can achieve a harmonious group mentality which has been so prevalant in this group for so many years.  overall i mean.

Hey, if I thought we'd get anywhere, I'd start up again tonight.
Maybe if I type the same stuff out but in a much bigger font, all-caps, I'll win...

i see your point.  and i apologize.  i meant well.

[tommyboy]

Good exchange. A thought - how about a community rules forum - a place where we can debate these issues - not a Thunderdome per se, but maybe a place where we can channel such discussion - complete with pertinant stickies aobut existing agreed upon rules.  Maybe some redundacnies will develop, but maybe that might help avoid (some) future altercations

NO!!11 I want a thunderdome!
Kidding..
I like the way you're thinking, actually. Sort of a ..forum within the forum where those concerned could go for arbitration and discussion and clarification, and everyone sane could avoid like the plague...

[TaskMasterX]

I just don't believe what I'm reading here. The response to this thread is a perfect example of the elitism that's dividing this community. Anyone should be able post about any thing they want - as long as the forum rules are followed. You have a choice whether or not to post in the thread. IPS, takes it upon himself to tell us when it's okay to post about a certain topic, yet he can keep his Avatar Pic, which is a blatant reminder of the topic itself. IPS can post wherever he wants, in any thread, each time reminding everyone of the topic he doesn't want anyone talking about! Amazing! If he really wanted the topic not to be discussed, then why hasn't he changed his Avatar back? Hmmm?

[Vertex]

I just don't believe what I'm reading here. The response to this thread is a perfect example of the elitism that's dividing this community. Anyone should be able post about any thing they want - as long as the forum rules are followed. You have a choice whether or not to post in the thread. IPS, takes it upon himself to tell us when it's okay to post about a certain topic, yet he can keep his Avatar Pic, which is a blatant reminder of the topic itself. IPS can post wherever he wants, in any thread, each time reminding everyone of the topic he doesn't want anyone talking about! Amazing! If he really wanted the topic not to be discussed, then why hasn't he changed his Avatar back? Hmmm?

Are , like,  you, trying, to, use, logic, or, something?

I'm sorry I'm kidding I get your point but I honestly think he's trying to kid about some of the name calling that went on and not the actual event but it is a good point.

[AfghanAnt]

I just don't believe what I'm reading here. The response to this thread is a perfect example of the elitism that's dividing this community. Anyone should be able post about any thing they want - as long as the forum rules are followed.

Actually if you want to blame anyone for the "who can post where" feel of this thread, it's me you should be pointing the finger at. I made the first snarky comments about Green Hornet not having a right to post about "Mod Rules" when he's not a contributor to this community. I hate to say it but if anyone should be posting threads l like this it should be people are actively giving not those who are actively requesting.

...yet he can keep his Avatar Pic, which is a blatant reminder of the topic itself.Amazing! If he really wanted the topic not to be discussed, then why hasn't he changed his Avatar back? Hmmm?

Also who cares about his avatar pic, your whole post comes off "I don't like IPS and here's a few examples".


Just my 2 cents.

[Figure Fan]

IPS switching to this avatar is something along the lines of passive aggressive behavior, which is still aggressiveness.

Believe it or not, we aren't dumb. We noticed.

[AfghanAnt]

IPS switching to this avatar is something along the lines of passive aggressive behavior, which is still aggressiveness.

Believe it or not, we aren't dumb. We noticed.

I think that was his whole point. It's funny how comments like "evil wins" and other not very nice comments were made go left unmentioned but avatar pic to show you have a sense of humor about the whole situation gets you roasted alive.

This whole community is made up of hypocrites and finger pointers. 

[bearded]

i was the guilty one of breaking the first forum rule in the faq.
i publicly apologize to ips, and anyone else i offended.  i got overemotional.  ips can understand that, yes?
and i do get a glimpse of the sense of humor behind the avatar.

edit post script:  and i will state, i spoke those words alone, and should not be lumped with anyone else.

[TaskMasterX]

I just don't believe what I'm reading here. The response to this thread is a perfect example of the elitism that's dividing this community. Anyone should be able post about any thing they want - as long as the forum rules are followed.

Actually if you want to blame anyone for the "who can post where" feel of this thread, it's me you should be pointing the finger at. I made the first snarky comments about Green Hornet not having a right to post about "Mod Rules" when he's not a contributor to this community. I hate to say it but if anyone should be posting threads l like this it should be people are actively giving not those who are actively requesting.

Also who cares about his avatar pic, your whole post comes off "I don't like IPS and here's a few examples".


Just my 2 cents.

The first few sentences in my post (the ones you quoted) could definitely be directed at you, AA, because I never mentioned any names. What gives anyone who is NOT an Admin or Mod to tell anyone they don't have the right to post about a certain subject. Someone already mentioned that GreenHornet has a vested interest in seeing this community flourish and not wanting to see the same thing happen again. Why even say what you said? Why not just ignore the thread? You really mean that YOU don't think that comes across as sounding elitist when you say that?

And if it sounds like I'm picking only on IPS, then maybe its because you don't have an avatar that represents the topic he doesn't want to talk about. Not only did he come across as elitist, like you did, but he took it a step further by being hypocritical and keeping his "humorous" Avatar. I never mentioned anything about his Avatar until he started up with the hypocrisy. The issue was never about the Avatar until he started telling people they shouldn't talk about the topic his Avatar represents - humorous or not. Also, IPS was the first responder to this thread telling GH that it's to soon to talk about this, so IPS is actually the first to the elitist finish line, not you, AA.

mmm?

now i'm being taken to task for having a sense of humour... sigh. i think i'm allowed to make light of the absolutely rediculous level to which things got by people actually calling me names and making character statements that i'm evil. would you rather my avatar be a little smiley in mourning or something? if the humour is lost on you, i would think the avatar would at least be a reminder so that in 4 weeks from now tommyboy would say... oh ya i better bring that up since we've all had time now...

woohoo... it really IS all about me... lol i can't wait to rub it in all my Xs faces...

So what are you saying, that it's okay to be humorous about the topic, but not serious? If Green Hornet would have started a thread making fun of the situation, that would have been okay? Sheesh!

How about just bringing back your old avatar? You don't need to be sarcastic. What makes you think ANY Avatar having to do with anything about this topic is okay, IPS? Ecspecially since you want the topic dropped?

Instead of doing the Right Thing, you'd rather say I don't have a sense of humor. How elitist.

[yell0w_lantern]

 

[Vertex]

seconded

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Guys, let's not start this up again.   I think we can agree that regardless of who you may or may not be, you should avoid bringing up this argument to give everyone time to cool off.

[tommyboy]

I would like to appeal to everyone to try to behave civilly, and if we can't like each other, or pretend to like each other, at least can we pretend that we don't dislike each other? It's making the kids cry to see us fighting all the time.
IPS's avatar breaks no forum rule I know of, it's an attempt at humour. I've had people punch me in the face in response to my "jokes" before, so I can gently inform him that one person's "funny" is another person's "insulting". Even if the intention is just to raise a smile. He may want to change it back, or he may not. That is his business. If you truly find it offensive, take it up with the forum Moderators.
People may be raising genuine concerns and valid issues, or defending themselves, or others, but it ain't helping much so far.

Less than four weeks, people. Sharpen your wits and your knives. Sharks and Jets, get ready to rummmmmble.



As to what will be on the agenda to discuss, I think it best we leave that open, in the sense that anyone can and should be able to bring up what concerns them.
Having said that, here's my two cents;
I personally want to discuss forum and community rules, the writing down and enforcement thereof, as well as possibly trying to put in place mechanisms or procedures to better handle "incidents" like our recent one.
I truly believe everyone went into that with nothing but good intentions, and we ended up in a rather bitter row.
That need not keep happening. Just as there are forum moderators, we may need community moderators to define and enforce community rules, (if that can be done), to step in and handle decisions and seek solutions. Otherwise we risk a system of "who can shout loudest and/or longest" to settle disputes. Maybe polling the community on issues is the way to go. "Oh yes it is!" and "oh no it isn't!" are not the best way in my opinion to settle things.
Maybe that all seems stupid, or futile or pompous, but it seems to me the "system" that gave us the DCUG row is a bit stupid and futile too.
Now we can argue for four weeks about what to argue about...

[M25]

This community needs an enema.

I agree.  Let's stop the personal attacks on both sides as it is getting us nowhere.

IPS, your avatar is baiting people regardless of your intentions.  Please change it.

[AfghanAnt]

The first few sentences in my post (the ones you quoted) could definitely be directed at you, AA, because I never mentioned any names. What gives anyone who is NOT an Admin or Mod to tell anyone they don't have the right to post about a certain subject. Someone already mentioned that GreenHornet has a vested interest in seeing this community flourish and not wanting to see the same thing happen again. Why even say what you said? Why not just ignore the thread? You really mean that YOU don't think that comes across as sounding elitist when you say that?

If your invested interested is only in seeing more free content even at the cost of long time vets, I don't see how that is making the community "flourish". I think as a senior and very active community member and creator (almost 7 years) here, I have the right to say whatever I think especially if it has to do with content.

Do I think people should take what I say as the truth? No. Do I even expect people to agree with me? Hell no, but I think I earned a right to make my comments (especially if they are true) about freeloaders.

And if it sounds like I'm picking only on IPS, then maybe its because you don't have an avatar that represents the topic he doesn't want to talk about. Not only did he come across as elitist, like you did, but he took it a step further by being hypocritical and keeping his "humorous" Avatar. I never mentioned anything about his Avatar until he started up with the hypocrisy. The issue was never about the Avatar until he started telling people they shouldn't talk about the topic his Avatar represents - humorous or not. Also, IPS was the first responder to this thread telling GH that it's to soon to talk about this, so IPS is actually the first to the elitist finish line, not you, AA.

It doesn't sounds like anything because you simply are picking on IPS. I think your comments about his avatar are just a personal jab because he rubs a lot of people wrong from time to time (me included but I like him so I let it slide).  

Instead of doing the Right Thing, you'd rather say I don't have a sense of humor. How elitist.

Wait you think you are doing the "Right Thing" right? Wow, I guess IPS and everyone who agrees with him is doing the "Wrong Thing" and if you are doing the right thing than I don't want to be right.

[AfghanAnt]

my font is cooler.

It's prettier too.

[AfghanAnt]

want me to send you the PSD? make it easier to switch if up later if you wanna?

Yeah why not. I think I'm going to leave it for now though because if my comments make me come off as an elitist, than why not admit it?

[Previsionary]

...........................................................................................

And people used to go out of their way to say how great and mature FR was...and now people are just attacking each other left and right. A day of peace would be nice, ya'know. If you see something that makes you want to go out of your way to say something that'd cause some type of argument, leave it for another day. Go write it in a journal...but all this in-fighting just for the sake of it and not letting issues rest for awhile is damaging. Especially when I see some long time members saying things I wouldn't expect them to say. Why, exactly, would anyone want to be a part of this community and releasing things when this type of behavior is basically running free now.

Again, stop making this a "vs." thing just because you want an enemy to fight. Stop provoking and antagonizing people. You're not only affecting them and yourself, you're hitting the whole community now, and I wouldn't be surprised if less content was released because of some of the things people have shared recently.

*disappears in a puff of smoke...to play okami.*

[M25]

*sigh*

AA, your avatar is also baiting people (or soon will).  If you respect IPS and his request for a cooling off period, then please change it.

[Xenolith]

I have a few comments about this whole affair.  The first is that we need to use specific terminology in any future discussions.  This will help us communicate more clearly.  For example, we can't have Mod Rules, only guidelines the community has established which we hope will be followed by folks making mods.  Another example, what is a mod?  In some minds DCUG was, but to others it was something else.  I don't think we need an exhaustive list of terms, but a few, at least, to help people out.

Second, I do think a permission list is appropriate because not everyone that comes here has a working knowledge of the history of the community.  New people do not have an understanding of what has been decided on in the past.  Even long-time members forget certain things.  Plus, each creator has certain things they do or do not done with their work.  Their reasons are their own, and we must respect their decisions.  Although it is reasonable that mod creators ask permission before using a skin, fx, mesh, etc., it is also reasonable that this information could be kept in a central location.

I do not think we want to see another fx pack/mod issue arise, and frankly our community should be organized enough to avoid it.

Thanks

 

[Johnny Patches]

 

[AfghanAnt]

*sigh*

AA, your avatar is also baiting people (or soon will).  If you respect IPS and his request for a cooling off period, then please change it.

To be fair, that was my point and Prev's made me realized I was being a little childish and was trying to annoy TaskmasterX because he called me an elitist. I have no clue why people keep throwing around "elitist" because its not the truth.

I think about this forum as a resource rather than a business but to be fair, freeloaders really do treat content creators like we are their employees. So if asking freeloaders why they think they have a say in content/creators affairs is elitist, than I must be one. So whatever, I'm just one content creator and obviously my feelings and opinions aren't as important as everyone's else.

[TaskMasterX]

I'm sorry for flailing nerves, and if anything I said seemed personal, but I was acting in the best interests of the community, at least IMO. I would have said it again to anyone who pulled the same stunt, so I'm not singling anyone out.

I've been around since the beginning as well and contributed to several projects, but I don't see the amount of contributions being the scale by which we determine who gets to speak about what. I would have never dreamed of telling anyone - freeloader or not, that they don't have the right to talk about or bring up a topic.

And speaking of freeloaders, I was once a freeloader, too. But through time, I learned about modding, scripting, and other things and eventually started contributing. So, given time (and courtesy) freeloaders could eventually end up contributing themselves. While I agree that freeloaders do treat content creators like their employees (or even worse), all those that don't contribute, aren't freeloaders.

[Vertex]

I'm sorry for flailing nerves, and if anything I said seemed personal, but I was acting in the best interests of the community, at least IMO. I would have said it again to anyone who pulled the same stunt, so I'm not singling anyone out.

I've been around since the beginning as well and contributed to several projects, but I don't see the amount of contributions being the scale by which we determine who gets to speak about what. I would have never dreamed of telling anyone - freeloader or not, that they don't have the right to talk about or bring up a topic.

And speaking of freeloaders, I was once a freeloader, too. But through time, I learned about modding, scripting, and other things and eventually started contributing. So, given time (and courtesy) freeloaders could eventually end up contributing themselves. While I agree that freeloaders do treat content creators like their employees (or even worse), all those that don't contribute, aren't freeloaders.

You heard the man.. so please feel fee to send me bowls of shrimp gumbo, chili, or fried chicken.. dang it my wife doesn't cook any of this stuff and I've been married 8 years!!! I need food!

[The Hitman]

cool. i'll send it over... and if anyone else would like a name tag or the psd i don't mind sending it.

Awesome, can I get in on that? I'ma gonna make mine say "Out of the Loop"... or "Bob."

[AfghanAnt]

I'm sorry for flailing nerves, and if anything I said seemed personal, but I was acting in the best interests of the community, at least IMO. I would have said it again to anyone who pulled the same stunt, so I'm not singling anyone out.

Most. Backhanded. Apology. Ever.

[Vertex]

I'm sorry for flailing nerves, and if anything I said seemed personal, but I was acting in the best interests of the community, at least IMO. I would have said it again to anyone who pulled the same stunt, so I'm not singling anyone out.

Most. Backhanded. Apology. Ever.

 


let                  it                   go