Freedom Reborn

Community Forums => Comics => Topic started by: HarryTrotter on May 20, 2021, 06:32:11 PM

Title: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 20, 2021, 06:32:11 PM
So after getting burned out on Horus Heresy (God-Emperor,Deathfire sucked),I decided to take a break and started a whole bunch of other books. So currently reading:
-Dreams of steel. Im back to Black Company. Which is a seriously awesome series,that oddly doesn't get talked about all that often.
-Dune. I'm giving it a second chance because it's popular again. I didn't really turn around. Impressive world building and a lot of original ideas for it's time. But the story is still shallow and characters are still one dimensional.
- Hyperion. I didn't get that far yet,but it seems promising. It's like Centerburry Tales in space.
-Star Trek Twist of Faith. It's the DS9 continuation that actually work way better then you would expect. Good thing there is a recap/timeline at the beginning,since I did forgot a lot. Rom becoming the Nagus?
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 22, 2021, 05:20:19 AM
Never got into Dune. I know some people are real interested in the new movie so it's never been something I've gravitated towards.

I've always wanted to get into the Star Trek Deep Space Nine continuation novels. Might have to look into them sometime. Timeline/recap sounds like a good idea.


Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Epimethee on May 22, 2021, 02:07:19 PM
I loved the first Dune book, even if the characters are more archetypal that deep, but that’s not exactly an uncommon trait in SF; I believe it works here.

When re-reading Dune a few years later, I found quite a few parallels with a book I had read recently, T.E. Lawrence’s Seven Pillars of Wisdom (Lawrence of Arabia’s autobiography). That mix of influences, from colonialism vs jihadism to messianism to Greek myths to ecology (in the 1960s!) is what makes the book compelling.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 22, 2021, 02:26:10 PM
Yeah,the world building is impressive for the time. Feudal future, doing away with robots and computers and aliens,Guild,Navigators,eugenics...but the actual story is like Dances with wolves type of thing. Good guys are perfect in everything and bad guys are evil kiddie touchers. Okay, eugenics,but it's still all kinda shallow.

I did rewatch DS9 2-3 years back and I still forgot a lot of subplots,tbh. Again,Rom becoming the Grand Nagus? Then I was like,oh yeah,he started out dumb then became a...Ferengi socialist,I guess? Anyway,the DS9 books work way better then they have any right to, honestly.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 23, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
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Then I was like,oh yeah,he started out dumb then became a...Ferengi socialist,I guess? Anyway,the DS9 books work way better then they have any right to, honestly.

Good to know the books are actually good. I think I mentioned how incredibly disappointing I found the "Spotlight: Cardassians" comic was a few times. I've always been a bit worried the novels were a bit too much like bad fanfic. I've heard a few of them are a bit like that.

Rom was a good enough character, but the show was inconsistent with how dumb he was and indeed some of his plots sprang from working for Quark and being mistreated and underappreciated. Being the Ferengi, I suppose Zek appointing Rom the position of Nagus was just supposed to be a joke, but oh well.

Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Nyte Dragon on May 23, 2021, 02:31:44 PM
Rom becoming the Grand Nagus? Then I was like,oh yeah,he started out dumb

Rom was a good enough character, but the show was inconsistent with how dumb he was and indeed some of his plots sprang from working for Quark and being mistreated and underappreciated.

 I never considered Rom as dumb. When the show first started the character was presented as slow, I do agree to that much. But I see Rom as having some sort of condition similar to autism, perhaps the Ferengi version of Aspergers. He's not comfortable or confident in social situations, including doing business.
 Moogie even says that Rom 'didn't have the lobes for business', much like his father. This also suggests he could have inherited the condition from his father. And given Ferengis focus on business and acquiring profit, mental health issues were probably not a major focus. So others just viewed Rom as slow, or dumb.
 This changed for Rom once the Federation took over DS9. While the Cardassians would never allow for it, the Federation allowed Rom to study, learn, and work along side them in a variety of engineering tasks. This is where Rom was able to excel, he had a intuitive mind for this kind of work.
 So, much like Sheldon Cooper (for a fictional refrence) is pretty socially inept while excelling at physics, Rom has the mind for engineering. (Or if you want a RL example, Ellon Musk recently came out as having Aspergers).
 And by finding his 'niche', Rom began to gain confidence in himself. And with help from his newly found relationships (especially Leeta) he began to be able to deal with social situations better. His "condition" could also be one of the reasons the Nagus appointed Rom as his successor. Rom saw things in a different light then other Ferengi did.

 Granted this isn't supported anywhere AFAIK,  but it's my take on it.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 24, 2021, 03:06:27 AM
Interesting take indeed, ND.

Here's what I got to add. In an early episode, Odo calls out Quark on an alibi by saying "Rom's an idiot. He couldn't fix the [so-and-so] if he tried." Now on the one hand, the writers might not have planned it out, and Odo's job is be good at sniffing out facts. On the other hand, Odo is dismissive of the Ferengi because of Quark and doesn't have the highest opinion of Rom as it is.

Also it's established that Rom learned to be good with engineering-related fields of work from having to do cost-effective makeshift repairs for Quark's holosuite, having to improvise because Quark, being the cheapskate that he was, wouldn't spring for the proper parts. I think I'm remembering most of that right.

So it's certainly possible your take on him is a valid one, but there is a in-universe explanation as well.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 24, 2021, 04:20:23 AM
There is also a bit of inconsistent writing going on. Very early on,Rom is more malicious,then he becomes a goofball/comedy sidekick,before trying to get Quarks workers to unionize and quoting Karl Marx.

As for Zek- he did have a religious experience.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 24, 2021, 04:28:33 AM
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There is also a bit of inconsistent writing going on. Very early on,Rom is more malicious,then he becomes a goofball/comedy sidekick,before trying to get Quarks workers to unionize and quoting Karl Marx.

As for Zek- he did have a religious experience.

That is true as well. And the acting for both Rom and the acting and characterization of Zek changed over time too. Zek was made far more goofy after his first appearance and Ishka had a lot of influence on him.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 25, 2021, 01:51:45 PM
Funny enough,Quark doesn't change over the course of the series. He's still the same dude who put the "must give me umox" clause in the dabo girls contracts. 😄
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Nyte Dragon on May 25, 2021, 05:13:32 PM
In an early episode, Odo calls out Quark on an alibi by saying "Rom's an idiot. He couldn't fix the [so-and-so] if he tried." Now on the one hand, the writers might not have planned it out, and Odo's job is be good at sniffing out facts. On the other hand, Odo is dismissive of the Ferengi because of Quark and doesn't have the highest opinion of Rom as it is.

This actually fits into my theory. Everyone assumed Rom was 'slow and dumb, because he was never really given his chance to shine before. And Odo is indeed good at chasing facts, but if Rom was never allowed to show his talents, then Odo would have to use the facts he has. That being Rom has always shown himself to be 'an idiot. Plus as you said, Quark probably has colored Odo's perception of Ferengi.

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Also it's established that Rom learned to be good with engineering-related fields of work from having to do cost-effective makeshift repairs for Quark's holosuite, having to improvise because Quark, being the cheapskate that he was, wouldn't spring for the proper parts. I think I'm remembering most of that right.

 And this is where I think Rom began discovering his aptitude for engineering. Because he had to repair Quark's equipment, and under Quark's cheapskate directives, he slowly grew in skill. And actually, because he had to become adaptive due to Quark, it may very well helped him excel.

 And the funny thing about this whole discussion... I'm not even a big fan of Rom. :lol: That would go to Dax, Jadzia and Ezri.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 26, 2021, 03:56:07 AM
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That would go to Dax, Jadzia and Ezri.

I'm very much an Ezri advocate. Which is not to slight Jadzia.

Not a huge fan of Rom either, but that just speaks to how well DS9 grew and made use of its rather extensive cast. Except Jake, he didn't have much to do.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 28, 2021, 04:45:34 PM
Beowulf- the national epic of English speaking peoples. About the Danes. Reading it after so many years,you can see that what we have has to be an abridged version,or a small part of a cycle. And the fact that Christian references have to be retconed in by the transcribers later on.
I was always more interested in it from a historical perspective,since it's the only surviving thing from the old Anglo-Saxon culture. Like,this was the thing that HAD to be saved from the Norman purges. This one story. It just raises so many questions.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 30, 2021, 12:52:48 PM
Saw a theatre presentation of Beowulf in Scotland with my great uncle. It was more like a dramatic reading or telling of the story by one person. Interesting enough story, but definitely one of those ones that's been around so long as to be told and retold and embellished in various ways. Pretty much anything notable enough that's fallen into the public domain gets that treatment.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 30, 2021, 04:11:10 PM
Well,all the transcribing was done by monks in those days,so they would probably retcon in Christian elements. Like Grendel and his mother being descendants of Cain.
And there are references to,what I assume,are past adventures. Like, remember that time Beowulf killed a bunch of Franks?
Oh,and there is actually a lot of reimaginings of the story. So something about it inspires people to give it their own spin.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 13, 2021, 04:43:37 PM
This will ,by the very nature,get political,so trigger warning,I guess?
Unrestricted Warfare,somewhat oddly subtitled "Chinas master plan to destroy America". Which it really isn't. It's basically a thought exercise/commentary on the Gulf War. In general, it's study of how wars would look like in the future.Being written in 1999,makes it a bit of a weird historical artefact. It does predict the rise of terrorism. Some other things like militarized hacker attacks...I guess that has yet to happen. Lawfare ended up being used more by corporations against individuals then countries against other countries. Tanks have yet to be written off. Trade embargoes are still a thing. Media manipulation got way worse (I wonder if the writers knew that Operation Mockingbird is a thing).
So if this was a master plan (and the book is apparently not that well know in China), things worked out? Because American Empire is in way worse shape then it was 22 years ago. And outside of crazy neocon fantasies,a war with China would be suicide.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 19, 2021, 06:53:29 PM
So Im reading a bit of Lovecraft lately. Some of it works. Some of it is just narrator going: "It was really scary. Can't describe how scary it was. Trust me. I fainted"
I get the "don't show the monster" approach,but having the pov character faint every time is really cheap. I guess people just fainted a lot in the 1920's.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 19, 2021, 11:58:25 PM
Doesn't sound great, but I've heard many, many times that a big part of the idea behind the Cthulhu mythos is that mankind cannot comprehend the true form of the creatures in those stories. That simply being in their presence and interacting with them on any level is enough to break the human mind.

Whether that be a crutch to get away with it or not, that's a matter of debate I suppose.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on June 20, 2021, 12:22:01 AM
So Im reading a bit of Lovecraft lately. Some of it works. Some of it is just narrator going: "It was really scary. Can't describe how scary it was. Trust me. I fainted"
I get the "don't show the monster" approach,but having the pov character faint every time is really cheap. I guess people just fainted a lot in the 1920's.

All joking aside, that actually was a much more common trope in earlier eras.  Heck, it's how Dante gets his Pilgrim past all the obstacles in the Inferno.  But it was also more common in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FaintInShock
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 20, 2021, 05:28:30 PM
I get the intent,and the idea of humans not being equiped to process some things. But it's just not that scary when the narrator tells you that it was really scary.
When he gives a few more details,it actually works. Like the elbow of something huge in The Shunned House. Or the glimpse of Dagon we see...in Dagon.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on June 20, 2021, 06:44:55 PM
I'm sure that's true, HT, but he was also kind of pioneering a new genre.  There are usually some growing pains in such situations, so that's not terribly surprising. 
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 20, 2021, 06:45:22 PM
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I get the intent,and the idea of humans not being equiped to process some things. But it's just not that scary when the narrator tells you that it was really scary.
When he gives a few more details,it actually works. Like the elbow of something huge in The Shunned House.

There's also the Tvtrope "Nothing is Scarier" meaning what leaving it to the imagination is thought to be more scarier than showing the monster.

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Or the glimpse of Dagon we see...in Dagon.

Just like that really good one-off episode of Digimon that's a lot better in the original Japanese version.  :lol:
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 20, 2021, 07:32:02 PM
I'm sure that's true, HT, but he was also kind of pioneering a new genre.  There are usually some growing pains in such situations, so that's not terribly surprising.
Fair enough. I would also assume that after 90 more years of horror since then, a modern reader would be harder to scare.
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Just like that really good one-off episode of Digimon that's a lot better in the original Japanese version.  :lol:
Was that Tamers? Because Chiaki Konata is a Cthullu Mythos writer. And Serial Experiment Lain writer. Which really tells you a lot about Tamers.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 20, 2021, 08:28:03 PM
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Fair enough. I would also assume that after 90 more years of horror since then, a modern reader would be harder to scare.

As mentioned in the first Simpsons Halloween special, when discussing The Raven and Friday the 13th Part One. I discovered this year it also applies to the original Twilight Zone.

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Was that Tamers? Because Chiaki Konata is a Cthullu Mythos writer. And Serial Experiment Lain writer. Which really tells you a lot about Tamers.

His Master's Voice, the "Dark Ocean" "Dark Undersea Master" episode of Adventure 02. The creature was literally called Dagomon, but that's not mentioned in the dub (it's mentioned in a much later episode in the Japanese version in a very clunky way). And it was Konata who wrote that. The dub naturally added way more shipping and off-screen humor, while the JP version stuck to the creepy atmosphere.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on June 21, 2021, 03:16:38 AM
Very true, HT.  I imagine that there are few genres that are more prone to diminishing returns in proportion to genre savviness than horror, and especially existential horror.

SS, that's a bit surprising.  I've found that the Twilight Zone holds up surprisingly well for me. 
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 21, 2021, 04:23:12 AM
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SS, that's a bit surprising.  I've found that the Twilight Zone holds up surprisingly well for me.

I briefly mentioned watching it in some random thread in tv/movie earlier this year (my exact words were "it's soooo good"). And what I mean is that while the show is incredibly solid (though many episodes are better than others) very little of it is scary to me, due to how dated it is and how limited the effects could be. The famous gremlin looks ridiculous, the guy who gets turned into a jack-in-the-box is a very limited effect.

There are two episodes I found genuinely chilling, in the whole set (well, I didn't see the 1-hour S4 because Netflix U.S. skipped it): the haunted Nazi concentration camp and the dead rising from the grave. none of the other episodes were frightening to me. There might be some I forgot about but those were the ones that stood out.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 21, 2021, 02:27:01 PM
Twilight Zone is a similar case. Much like Lovecraft's works,people end up familiar with it more by pop culture osmosis then by watching/reading the actual thing.
Simpsons did a lot of TZ episodes, Johnny Bravo did the cornfield one...Like Real Ghostbusters did Collect Call of Cthulhu,and so on...
Some things,like Texas Chainsaw massacre (the original) are actually scarier with age. The grainy footage makes it seem more realistic.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 04, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
I finished Dune. Boy,that ending feels rushed. There is a big battle (we mostly don't see),The Emperor surrenders,there is a duel because we need an action finale. There are no stakes because the opening of every chapter tells us how this ends.
Also,Herbert really likes to tell,not show. Like the whole book telling us how tough the Sardaukar are only for them to be complete jobbers in every fight. Actually "these guys are tough,trust me because they just are" could be the books subtitle.
Pointless aside,but the "hill tribe" trope is very unrealistic. If you got chased off into the mountains it's because everyone around kicked your butt. You don't chose to live there because you're that tough.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 04, 2021, 08:18:45 PM
Yeah, I really didn't find Dune particularly good.  I felt like it was full of good worldbuilding and lots of great ideas, but the actual storytelling was very poor.  In general, it's actually one of the handful of books I've read where I thought, 'the movie actually improved on this.'

As for the hill tribe trope, that's actually got plenty of historical precedent.  Folks from the rougher regions were often hardy and tough, and they often made for courageous warriors.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 05, 2021, 04:25:12 AM
In real world term, it's the horses that made up that important difference. Say,Comanches went from near extinction to the most powerful tribe on the continent because of horses.
In Dune terms,a prison planet breeds people who are super tough,loyal and good at following orders. And it just works. And Freeman are just straight up superhuman from living in the desert.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 05, 2021, 06:04:12 AM
In terms of America, the horse certainly made a big difference, but there's tons of examples of the same kind of thing from the ancient world too.  The Anabasis has stories of a few encounters with such peoples. 

And yeah, the Freeman are sort of crazy hardy.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 05, 2021, 01:58:10 PM
From Scythians to Mongols,true. The Comanche example is kinda random,but I guess as good as any. Basically,everyone would rather live near arable land and buffalo herds,if you are on some arid mountain,you got chased up there sometime in the past.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 05, 2021, 02:01:52 PM
True, but the wheel of fate turns.  The people on the mountain grow hardy, and the people in the valley grow soft.  Ha.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 05, 2021, 07:37:00 PM
True, but the wheel of fate turns.  The people on the mountain grow hardy, and the people in the valley grow soft.  Ha.
You're not wrong there. That's another SF trope,btw. Where the guys exiled beyond known space/galaxy/whatever are coming back for revenge. I think even Dune did it later on.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 05, 2021, 07:43:05 PM
More proof that sci-fi and fantasy are two sides of the same coin, as that's certainly a fantasy trope too.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 05, 2021, 07:58:10 PM
Those 2 genres are not that separate,nor is combining them all that new. Conan encounters an alien at one point.
Can't really remember a lot of fantasy examples of that (Wheel of time,IIRC) ...but to be honest,I don't really read a lot of fantasy (only recently gotten into Black Company, which is great). Most of "modern" fantasy feels bloated and derivative.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 05, 2021, 08:08:42 PM
It tends to be more of a feature of low fantasy than high fantasy, I'd say.  You see it in, fittingly enough, Conan-type Barbarian stories, especially during that initial era.  The whole concept of the enervating nature of civilization was part of the ethos that created those characters/settings.  But you also see it in authors like David Gemmel.  It's one of his major themes.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 06, 2021, 04:19:46 AM
Well, that's kinda the cycle of civilization. You could say SF is very Spenglerian in that regard.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 06, 2021, 04:34:43 AM
Yep, fiction emulating fact.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 13, 2021, 03:18:53 PM
Back to Lovecraft...are his twist endings even intended to be twists? With "Pickman's model", it's right up there in the title. Outsider also makes it obvious that the narrator is not human from the start.
Call of Cthulhu and Dunwich horror were good. So is Beneath the pyramids. During that one,the narrator (Harry Houdini, actually) faints 3 times. Or was it 4?
I assume there was an epidemic of low blood sugar in the 20's and 30's.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: BentonGrey on July 13, 2021, 04:22:51 PM
Ha!
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on July 18, 2021, 07:12:26 PM
I finished Twist of Faith. It was great. Even the new characters are fleshed out and interesting. For me,the highpoint of four books was a Jem'Hadar taking on a Hirogen.
Im getting into Hyperion again. It's like Canterbury tales in space. It does take a while to get started.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 02, 2021, 01:49:38 PM
Battletech Ideal War. It's the Vietnam war. With mechs. It's pretty good. And accessible, probably. I managed to keep up despite knowing nothing about the setting.

Star Trek One Small Step. It's the first part of the Gateways crossover. The bad guys of the crossover try to trick Kirk into giving them Kaladan portal technology. By disguising themselves as several Losiras. It's pretty short and feels like a sequel to that episode of TOS.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: GhostMachine on August 07, 2021, 07:44:11 PM
Back to Lovecraft...are his twist endings even intended to be twists? With "Pickman's model", it's right up there in the title. Outsider also makes it obvious that the narrator is not human from the start.
Call of Cthulhu and Dunwich horror were good. So is Beneath the pyramids. During that one,the narrator (Harry Houdini, actually) faints 3 times. Or was it 4?
I assume there was an epidemic of low blood sugar in the 20's and 30's.

Please tell me you've read "Cool Air". If not, you should really go seek it out.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 07, 2021, 08:30:13 PM
Back to Lovecraft...are his twist endings even intended to be twists? With "Pickman's model", it's right up there in the title. Outsider also makes it obvious that the narrator is not human from the start.
Call of Cthulhu and Dunwich horror were good. So is Beneath the pyramids. During that one,the narrator (Harry Houdini, actually) faints 3 times. Or was it 4?
I assume there was an epidemic of low blood sugar in the 20's and 30's.

Please tell me you've read "Cool Air". If not, you should really go seek it out.
Again,not sure if that was meant to be a twist. Guy's dead. Its obvious from very early on.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: GhostMachine on August 08, 2021, 02:13:56 AM
Back to Lovecraft...are his twist endings even intended to be twists? With "Pickman's model", it's right up there in the title. Outsider also makes it obvious that the narrator is not human from the start.
Call of Cthulhu and Dunwich horror were good. So is Beneath the pyramids. During that one,the narrator (Harry Houdini, actually) faints 3 times. Or was it 4?
I assume there was an epidemic of low blood sugar in the 20's and 30's.

Please tell me you've read "Cool Air". If not, you should really go seek it out.
Again,not sure if that was meant to be a twist. Guy's dead. Its obvious from very early on.

Oh, I know its not a twist. Its just a darn good story.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 13, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
Finished Hyperion. I really wanted to like this,I really did. But it's just so boring. I liked 2 of the stories here. Technically 2.5 since the final one kinda wraps it all together. Not that we really get any answers in the end.
Otherwise, it's like talking to a stoner.
Man, wouldn't it be cool if there is this AI,and it like cloned John Keats?
So...what happened then?
I don't know man,but it would be cool.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 16, 2021, 03:56:53 PM
DS9 Twilight. It's a good book,but kinda feels like 2 shorter books combined. We switch between Defiant on its mission in the now open Gamma quadrant and the happenings on DS9. Where we have the big diplomatic meeting about Bajor joining the Federation and a whole bunch of continuing subplots. Quark and Ro romance...kinda works, actually.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on August 19, 2021, 04:58:44 AM
Now that sounds like an interesting DS9 continuation. Gotta admit, I kinda wanna read those books.

Quark and Ro Lauren romance? Ok, that does make me wanna read the book.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 23, 2021, 09:44:09 AM
Thou Bajor joining the Federation in six weeks leads me to think it won't be that easy.
Voyager: Mosaic. It's Janeways backstory. Which we only got small parts of in the show. It's actually good.

Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 29, 2021, 05:07:22 AM
So I finished the Gateways crossover. Not the worst crossover I read,but I wish there was more crossing over. Basically there is a Starfleet briefing about the situation and then everyone goes off to do their own thing. Except the TOS and Voyager parts. For obvious reasons. Then the big finale in the TNG part of the epilogue. Picard meets the Iconians and becomes a Young God (not sure what that is),goes on a quest to find the keys and closes all the gateways. In the Voyager part,we also learned that it was Q who gave the Iconians the gateway technology. And the DS9 part  shows they know the Prophets. So we learned a lot about them,while still keeping some of the mystery.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 03, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
DS9 This Gray Spirit. Again,the DS9 part is actually interesting. Cardassians want a normalization of relations with Bajor,but Shaakar is having none of that. So we get a bit of a reverse,with Kira now having to advocate for the Cardassians. In the Defiant part,they find some fish dudes with a caste system and it's really boring. Like,how many times have we seen that setup in Star Trek. There is also a whole subplot about them needing parts,going to the black market,Nog tries to sell the stealth tech to the bad guys,but it was actually all part of a plan...that whole thing could have been cut out.
Quark is still worried that Federation and it's almost moneyless system will ruin his bar. Seriously,how? We saw Starfleet personel in his bar, so they had to pay him in some currency. So more people would be better for business,I assume.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: Silver Shocker on September 03, 2021, 10:49:25 PM
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So we get a bit of a reverse,with Kira now having to advocate for the Cardassians.

Now that does sound like a interesting premise.

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In the Defiant part,they find some fish dudes with a caste system and it's really boring. Like,how many times have we seen that setup in Star Trek. There is also a whole subplot about them needing parts,going to the black market,Nog tries to sell the stealth tech to the bad guys,but it was actually all part of a plan...that whole thing could have been cut out.

Doesn't sound very interesting, and sounds like kinda a crappy use of Nog compared to the later storylines of the show.

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Quark is still worried that Federation and it's almost moneyless system will ruin his bar. Seriously,how? We saw Starfleet personel in his bar, so they had to pay him in some currency. So more people would be better for business,I assume.

That part has always kind of confused me, and apparently even in the books they don't explain it.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 04, 2021, 02:22:42 PM
Yeah,I feel like the whole black market subplot is there to give Vaughn and Nog something to do,and give us a bit of ship action, while Ezri and Shar are dealing with the main plot. Which does play into the Andorian Reproductive Crisis story. They are really laying the pipes for that one.
I don't remember anyone ever mentioning "Federation credits" or something like that, but some currency has to exist. Like,there are restaurants on Earth,that would imply people are paying for the food. Maybe everyone is carrying gold pressed latinum around. So I don't really see how DS9 being under Federation control would be a bad thing for Quark's Bar.
Title: Re: Not-comic book reading
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 17, 2021, 04:01:37 PM
DS9 Cathedral. This time,the Gamma quadrant part of the story was actually interesting. Back in the Alpha quadrant,Bajorans had a religious schism over the prophecies Kira posted online back in Avatar. Vedek Yevir,Macet and Garak meet with the Cardassian clerics and get back four Orbs. So the negotiations can begin again. Bajor is about to join the Federation,but then Shaakar gets assasinated by the Trill security advisor. I knew that wasn't going to be so easy. And Joseph Sisko died. So that certainly had a lot going on.