Freedom Reborn

Community Forums => Film, Television, Video and Music Discussion => Topic started by: Shogunn2517 on October 28, 2019, 11:46:36 PM

Title: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 28, 2019, 11:46:36 PM
So the ax has dropped and they finally caved.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/10/28/superman-lois-lane-development-the-cw-arrowverse/

Maybe those are not quite the references to use, but the long speculated series with Tyler Hoechlin and Elizabeth Tulloch is being developed for next season. First appearing on Supergirl and The Flash/Elsworlds respectively, this will be the CW's seventh live action series to be on the network following the previously announced series starring Katherine McNamara(Blackstar/Mia Smoak), Juliana Harkavy(Dinah Drake/Black Canary) and Katie Cassidy(Laurel Lance/Black Siren) series that was also announced earlier this year. Obviously, this has been an open question since Hoechlin first started playing the role on Supergirl a few years back, but now that they are developing, there are some details to note:

Spoiler
I think the Working Title Superman & Lois Lane(or Superman and Lois), which isn't far off from a previous Lois and Clark, will have a similar focus. Instead of simply focusing on the Super heroics and the titular character himself, the show will focus on the intertwined lives of Lois Lane and Clark Kent as Superman as(and here's the kicker) PARENTS. Apparently, yes they will have a kid in the show because:

Spoiler
The couple will be given a kid in the 5-part Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover in a few months. I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising since Lois was pregnant I think in Elsworlds. Which considering the timeline of Supergirl's show, I really didn't expect them to go with an origin story, but they're skipping competing reporters, courtship, married life and accelerating to parenthood even before the show starts. That's because there will be a "backdoor" pilot(and this is why there needed to be another spoiler tag) in the final season of Arrow... at least that's what I read from a source of mine. It could be an inaccurate conflation of this show and the 'Birds of Prey'(I dunno, I guess that's what they're doing) show, which seems to be a more likely spinoff of Arrow, which has like 7 episodes to go(and coincidentally has seven weeks to go(excluding the Crisis). It's more likely that'll get the backdoor treatment as last episode or a Pre-Crisis(not sure how much of a pun I intended here) show. Which means if BOTH BoP and S&LL are using Arrow for piloting purposes, they're taking up a chunk a valuable real estate, so I assume the source is wrong. Now sure how they were planning to fit in a whole different character(Superman) from not just another show but in the show, another Earth... which I suppose confirm what we all inevitably knew...

Spoiler
The Earths are merging.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 29, 2019, 12:45:52 AM
I really like this version of Superman.  As long as they keep it classic about where his previous appearances were and don't try to get "edgy" with it, this could be a good show.

Spoiler

What with Arrow travelling around universes looking for stuff for the Monitor, the backdoor pilot could easily be Green Arrow being send to Superman and Supergirl's earth and teaming up with Superman (and Lois) to find whatever MacGuffin he is there to fetch.

In fact, the math works about perfectly here.  Assuming they have one episode each as an homage to each of Arrow's previous seasons, plus one episode for the Crisis, that leave 2 more episodes--one for each backdoor pilot.  That's too perfect to be a coincidence.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Podmark on October 29, 2019, 01:09:41 AM
 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 29, 2019, 06:09:47 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 29, 2019, 12:45:52 AM
I really like this version of Superman.  As long as they keep it classic about where his previous appearances were and don't try to get "edgy" with it, this could be a good show.

Spoiler

What with Arrow travelling around universes looking for stuff for the Monitor, the backdoor pilot could easily be Green Arrow being send to Superman and Supergirl's earth and teaming up with Superman (and Lois) to find whatever MacGuffin he is there to fetch.

In fact, the math works about perfectly here.  Assuming they have one episode each as an homage to each of Arrow's previous seasons, plus one episode for the Crisis, that leave 2 more episodes--one for each backdoor pilot.  That's too perfect to be a coincidence.

Hmmm.... that is a good point...
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: GhostMachine on October 30, 2019, 01:20:05 AM
The previously announced ARROW spinoff can up and die as far as I am concerned. The future segments of last season were the most boring parts of the show, and I hate that they've continued into this season.

Looking forward to the Superman & Lois Lane show, whatever it ends up being called.

The problem is, The CW may now have too many superhero shows, even with ARROW ending . Though, I suspect LEGENDS might be on its last legs, with Brandon Routh leaving. (With that being announced, I'm definitely done with it if Dominic Purcell leaves.)

Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on January 21, 2021, 10:54:28 PM
 I just saw the newest trailer for the show... and I am really looking forward to it. To me it's seems like they took some of 'Smallville', mixed a dose of 'Lois and Clark', and tossed in just a dash of the 'Clark & Lois' comic. They let Superman age into becoming a dad (not certain about the twin sons, but still... SUPER-DAD!) and move back to Smallville.

From the trailer, it looks like they have the idea of how to make Superman as a character work. It's not about the powers, the juggling of planets, being faster then the speed of light squared, or being able to arm wrestle gods.

It's about the man. He can see atoms moving and hear a moth fart, but how does he deal with a son throwing a temper tantrum? He can walk on the surface of the sun and can take a nuke with a shrug, but how does he deal with Lois being upset he forgot their anniversary?

The moment you make the Super more important then the Man, you've missed the entire concept. It should never be about what he can do, but why he does it. And it looks like this show may have it right. I'm hoping they do.

Is it February yet?
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on January 22, 2021, 03:35:46 AM
Looking pretty good so far...
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on February 08, 2021, 12:44:47 AM
NEW TRAILER!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJPJPUpNvDw)

Is it the 23rd yet?? (She asks impatiently!)
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: BentonGrey on February 08, 2021, 01:51:31 AM
Hmm, interesting premise.  I am pretty open to a Super-family angle.  The angsty-ness in that second trailer seems a bit much, but the idea has tons of potential.  What a cool approach for a show!
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on February 08, 2021, 03:26:49 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 08, 2021, 01:51:31 AM
The angsty-ness in that second trailer seems a bit much

:huh: This is the CW, ya know.  :lol:
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 08, 2021, 07:05:45 AM
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 08, 2021, 03:26:49 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 08, 2021, 01:51:31 AM
The angsty-ness in that second trailer seems a bit much

:huh: This is the CW, ya know.  :lol:

You're not wrong. Noone in the Arrowverse ever seemed to be able to figure out that keeping really important secrets was a bad idea.

Yes, anstiness is a bit worrisome, but otherwise, this is such a wholesome looking show. It feels really great to have a Superman show on tv (it's a 2 hour premiere!) for the first time since Smallville over a decade ago, and Superman and Lois are further into their life together than they've ever been in a mainstream Superman. How neat!

"The world will always need Superman."

Yer goshdarn right.

"But right now this family needs you more."

I will remain optimistic and open-minded. It can't possibly be more misguided than the Zach Snyder version, right?
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: BentonGrey on February 08, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Ha, very true, ND, and that is why I have never really gotten into these shows.

I'm definitely going to try this one out. 
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on February 12, 2021, 04:57:29 PM
If I may be a downer on one thing though... I'm excited for the show, but I am not fond of what we've seen of the costume. I've said this before, but of all the trunk-less costumes I've seen, the one they had for Hoechlin in Supergirl worked best at keeping the color balance. The thicker belt, the gold cape latches, the proper collar... It worked for me in ways the 90s suit didn't.

This one though... They darkened the blue, thinned the belt, tucked the cape into a smaller collar... Some of that is for practical and comfort reasons, but I've never understood why the cape can't just be attached at the shoulders. It's not like the tech doesn't exist, it was like that in every series from the 40s to the 90s.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 12, 2021, 07:34:56 PM
I also am not crazy about the costume in this show, but I'm not going to hold it against the show too much. Plus the other Arrowverse characters have upgraded their costumes as they go, so maybe they'll change it as they go.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: BentonGrey on February 21, 2021, 06:35:20 PM
Yeesh, just got a good look at the cape attachment.  Yeah, that's weird.  Why?  Also, you know that I think it never looks right without trunks, 'Mato.

Here's hoping we'll see something better evolve, SS.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on February 21, 2021, 07:13:07 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 21, 2021, 06:35:20 PM
Yeesh, just got a good look at the cape attachment.  Yeah, that's weird.  Why?  Also, you know that I think it never looks right without trunks, 'Mato.

Here's hoping we'll see something better evolve, SS.

So I asked a friend who does cosplay, and she had a theory. The reason has to do with mobility... capes, especially thicker ones, are heavy, and putting the start closer to the neck allows the cape to sit between the shoulders, giving greater range of movement. Still looks stupid, but I will at least concede it's practical.

As for the trunks... I agree, sort of. I think a proper looking superman without trunks CAN be done... the Cassiday era X-men costumes proved you could break up the colors in costumes like Superman's (Wolverine, for example) in different ways that aren't as "silly" as the trunks.  But it's never been done properly IMHO, so if they're not going to properly color balance it without them, having the trunks is preferable.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 22, 2021, 12:21:09 AM
QuoteSo I asked a friend who does cosplay, and she had a theory. The reason has to do with mobility... capes, especially thicker ones, are heavy, and putting the start closer to the neck allows the cape to sit between the shoulders, giving greater range of movement. Still looks stupid, but I will at least concede it's practical.

Practicallity is as good an answer as most

Too bad they couldn't use the classic Superman costume in every new version of Superman, unless there was a good story reason not to. Because then noone would have to figure out what needs to be done with the new costumes, because they'd be the usual one seemingly everyone already likes.

Then again, if the costume is lacking and the show is good, I think that's ok. I don't like Supergirl's hair OR costume in S5, but that had nothing to do with my feeling that was a poor season.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on February 22, 2021, 04:25:06 AM
 I agree with Shock on the upgrade on the costumes. Look at how S1 Flash's outfit has changed. It started out dark red with the red chest emblem, and now it's a brighter red with a white emblem. They'll change and adapt the outfit too better suit (heh pun) the actor's needs, viewer's feedback, and over-all look. But I do have to say, I've never was a fan of the trunkless look the come up with on any of the costumes, the Superman costumes that is.

On Batman, the loss of trunks was fine because his belt broke it up. But when they did this with Superman's costume, they made the belt... segmented, I guess is the best description for it. It's not a whole belt, so it doesn't break the costume up, and it looks like a big blue onesie. The trunks made it look separated. I haven't gotten a really good look at the belt here, but it looks solid, so it might work. But I have a more important question....

Is
It
The
23rd
Yet?
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 22, 2021, 06:44:01 AM
QuoteBut when they did this with Superman's costume, they made the belt... segmented, I guess is the best description for it. It's not a whole belt, so it doesn't break the costume up, and it looks like a big blue onesie. The trunks made it look separated. I haven't gotten a really good look at the belt here, but it looks solid, so it might work.

As I've said a few times, I've really come around to the "color balance" argument.

QuoteIs
It
The
23rd
Yet?

:D

*Sigh* No, not yet.

I have a strong feeling it's not going to be as good as I want it to be, and I don't know how I feel about that.

And considering this is a Post-Crisis Arrowverse show, I should be grading this thing on the biggest curve this side of....well, the DCEU.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 23, 2021, 07:15:10 AM
One more before the premiere:

While I don't usually particularly like promos that splice in interview footage, this one's real nice.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gytdTpYnNA)

Elizabeth Tullock (Lois Lane): I mean it's Superman, you can't go wrong with Superman.

LOL. Usually you can't go wrong with Superman, anyway.

Wole Parks ("The Stranger"): What does Superman look like in 2021?

You mean the costume?  :P I kid, I kid. Yeah, I know what he means. Should be interesting, but I would think the simplest, most effective answer would be: "He'd be Superman."

Tyler: I think the fans will love seeing him challenged in a way we haven't seen him before.

Wole Parks ("The Stranger"): What MAKES him human is he has to face adversity. He has to deal with LIFE.

Tyler: There's a lot of hurdles that we haven't seen them jump through before.

Yeah, I made a few snarky comments, but I dunno, it sounds like these guys get it.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on February 23, 2021, 05:03:11 PM
SQUEEEE!!!

It IS the 23rd!!

Please let it be good! Please let it be good! Please let it be good! Please let it be good!

PLEASE DON'T LET THEM TAKE A SYNDER ALL OVER SUPERMAN!

:yipee Party hats for everybody!  :yipee
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: BentonGrey on February 23, 2021, 08:17:41 PM
Haha, you just a tad excited, ND?  Well, here's hoping!
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on February 23, 2021, 11:38:19 PM
 Just a lil bit? Does it show?  :D

Seriously though, Superman to me is like Aquaman is to you. My dad was never really around, never at home, when I was growing up, so I didn't have a male role model. But I read comics since as far back as I can remember, and I latched on to Superman as something of a surrogate father figure. Superman was the kind of person I wanted to grow up to be like. It wasn't the powers that was the draw. I know the whole male power fantasy that a lot of psychologists say is the draw to Superman, or superheroes in general. But to me, it was the moral center of the character, that drew me to him.

That despite having the power to make himself wealthy beyond dreams, he struggles with having a job. That despite his amazing abilities that could make his life so easy, he chooses to use those abilities in service to others. And not for pay, he chooses to do so. I came from a family that help to fund and create our local volunteer fire department. So the fact Superman volunteered his services made me love the character. And I know this will sounds silly, or corny, what have you, but as I grew up I had thoughts like...

"Is this what Superman would do? "
"What would Superman think?"
Even "Would this make Superman proud?"

To me he was also the most relatable hero. I know one of the arguments about a certain Flying Rodent Guy is that anyone could be him. Well...., yeah, you could, if you had the millions of dollars for the gear, for the travel to all the best teachers, the loyal beyond all natural sanity accomplice, then yeah, you could be him. He's wealthy and never has to work a day in his life. He's ultra-suave and has ladies flocking all over him. I can't relate to that.

But, Clark Kent, I can relate to him. Remember, he was Clark long before he became Superman. He works a job and deals with a boss, just like everyone else. Clark was the stumbling nerd who get tongue tied around the girl. He could cold stare down Darkseid and juggle planets. But put him in front of Lois Lane, and his knees got weak, his heart would race, and he had trouble making words. I understood that! That was me. Everybody knows who Bruce Wayne is, but no one knows Clark Kent.

Now things have come full circle. Superman was my surrogate father figure, and they're doing a show of him being a father. And his not sure of how good he's doing. He can fly up holding a truck over his head, like we would toss a trash bag into a dumpster. But when his son gets mad that he's hid something from him, he's not sure how to deal with it. Just like the rest of us.

I am so hoping they get it right. The WB/CW did so great with 'Smallville', even with the trademark angst. :lol: So, crossing fingers, I can't wait!
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: SuperPoweredYank on February 24, 2021, 03:03:37 AM
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 23, 2021, 11:38:19 PM
I know the whole male power fantasy that a lot of psychologists say is the draw to Superman, or superheroes in general. But to me, it was the moral center of the character, that drew me to him.

I concur.

Even as a child I always idolized Superman. Sure, I would still occasionally fantasize about having Superman's powers. But the main appeal to Superman was always the fact he can use those powers for good. The constant cynical interpretations of the character are incredibly tiring.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: BentonGrey on February 24, 2021, 04:07:51 AM
Wow, ND, that is just awesome!  Thanks for sharing it with us!  I'm glad that you've got such a strong connection to that character, and that certainly helps me understand what this show means to you.  I can understand what you mean about the moral center being the draw for the character.  Though Superman isn't my favorite, that's what I appreciate about him too.  And what you said about the surrogate father figure and the version of him as a father, that's really cool.  I hope this show will be everything you want it to be!
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on February 24, 2021, 05:35:44 AM
 OMG! OMG! OMG!

Okay someone should take Zach Synder duct tape him to a chair, Clockwork Orange his eyes open, and make him watch this over and over!

They got it! They so got it!

ULTRA-MEGA-SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Okay spoilery spoiler stuff....

Spoiler
I love the montage style opening going through the backstory.

The Kents finding baby Clark. Pa Kent's passing and funeral. Clark moving to Metropolis. So good, and the music... so epic!

And then we get the 1st appearance of Superman. And he's wearing the Golden Age costume!! OMG! So awesome! Even if it's for just a few seconds. And "Thanks, my Mom made it for it. " Such a great call back line to the first episode of 'Lois & Clark'.

Then we get the first meeting of Clark and Lois. And yes! Yes! He's all stutters and bumbling in front of her. So good. We get to see the twins, who are named after both Clark's dads. We also get hints that Jon Kent might be the next hero in the family, seemingly showing signs of emerging powers. Jordan on the other hand, we learn has anxiety problem and has to go to therapy.

Skip forward to present day, and the power plant is gonna blow! Oh nos! But Superman saves the day. And it was a nice way to show off his powers WITHOUT destroying 1/4 of a major city. Yeah, Synder, taped to your chair, I'm looking at you. And it showed he doesn't have to go all punchy punchy to save the day. We also learn Gen. Lane knows Superman's secret ID and this is the second time we've had a near meltdown. Oh, and through the montage the costume updates. And while I've never been a fan of the trunkless look, I can get into this one. A solid belt breaks up the outfit like I said in another post.

Superman arrives home, and told by Lois that he missed Jordan's therapy session. And Jon has news. Jon is supposed to be the starting QB, even though he's a freshman. Clark goes to apologize for missing Jordan's therapy. And, yes.... Jordan is CW angsty teen approved. But this has one of my favorite laugh out loud moments. He's playing 'Injustice 2'! It's Superman Vs Raiden on screen. And when Clark comments Jordan makes a good Superman, Jordan replies 'Superman's boring'. Oh how deep the knife goes! :lol:

We skip ahead to the Daily Planet and find out that Morgan Edge has bought the Planet. People are getting let go left and right. And so is Clark. As Clark and Lois begin to talk about this, Clark's phone rings and he at first thinks it's his Mom. But it turns out it's a Doctor. Clark takes off flying at super-speed and heads home... too late. 😥 Ma Kent has passed away from a stroke. And Tyler Hoechlin makes you believe a Superman can cry.

We have the funeral, and then the gathering at the Kent farm. We meet Lana Lane, now Cushing, and her husband, Tool. Okay, his name isn't Tool, but it should be. He is a grade-a Tool. He's the local fire chief, and he might just be acting that way because he's jealous that Clark is Lana's HS sweetheart. We also meet Lana's oldest daughter, Sarah, who is seemingly set-up as a possible love interest for Jordan. Cell/Wi-Fi reception is 'teh suck' down on the farm, and Sarah, Jon, and Jordan go into the barn to reset the router. Okay, this part I gotta question. Why is the router in a hard to reach place in the barn and not someplace easy to access? Anywho, Clark has warned the boys to stay out of the barn. That it's dangerous. And it is, a load of pipes fall on the Kent boys, with Jon apparently saving the duo.

Lois's dad visits the farm, showing evidence linking nuke plants with a blurry figure caught on camera, along with Kryptonian micro-etching. Her dad tries to order Clark into action, but Lois countermands her dad, stating that Clark needs to be with family right now, but if an emergency happens, Superman will be there. GO LOIS GO!

The next day at the Smallville bank we learned that Ma Kent has the farm on a reverse mortgage. And she has been helping out all the neighbors. Gee, makes you wonder where Clark got it from. While this is going on the twins are curious about how they weren't hurt and investigate the barn. They find the cellar and Clark's ship, and confront their parents when they get home. Clark reveals who he is, and that they assume Jon has inherited Clark's powers. Both boys are upset and storm off. 

That evening Lois and Clark are talking and Clark asks Lois if he's a bad father. OMG! Yes! "The man is more important then the super!", so far they are getting it. This is how to handle Superman. He projects this core of confidence to the world, but he needs Lois to lean on, to ground him. Inside he has the same self-doubts that we all have.

Suddenly another nuke plant is under attack. And this looks like a.... you know where it's going. Meanwhile the twins go to a bonfire that Sarah invited them to.
Superman meets the baddie, who has been doing this because the plant is lead lined and he could hide and observe Supes. Superman attacks and the baddie is wearing armor. In all honestly, it looks somewhat like the 'MoS' kryptonian armor. Oh, and he keeps calling Superman Kal-El. So I kind of think it's going to be Zod or some such. Bleh, we did Zod already in the movies. Please no. But anyway, the two fight, and we see Superman keeping this super powered fight away from cities and such.

*SMACKS Synder* Are we paying attention Mr. Destruction Porn?!?

The twins go to a bonfire Sarah invited them to and Jordan misreads a secret sharing talk with Sarah and kisses her. He gets slugged by Sarah's boyfriend. Jon jumps in to save the day, only to lead to both boys getting butts handed to them. Jordan and Jon are on the ground getting kicked and hit, and Jordan gets angry and *FOMPH* HIS heat vison causes an explosion. I hate to say, I kind of saw this coming. That, or somehow the twins would 'split' Clark's powers. They lead in just a bit too heavy handed on it being Jon to have the powers. Plus, I guess it was meant to be a swerve for comic readers, who expected Jon to be like his comic book counterpart.

Back to the fight, they are in mid-orbit, and Baddie asks if Supes wonders how he knows so much about him. He says something about he's also from a doomed planet (or he could have said destroyed), not unlike krypton. Okay, so he's not kryptonian. Good. Anyway, he says the villainous diatribe that all bad guys must spout. (It's in the Bad Guy Handbook) And then he stabs Supes with a kryptonite knife embedding in his chest and Clark plummets towards earth.

Lois sees about the explosion on TV and uses a little pager-like device to call to Clark. As Clark hears the signal, he pulls the kryptonite out, and stops his fall in the nick of time. He flies off and arrives at the explosion area. Jon is okay, just beaten up, but Jordan looks like hell. His eyes are super-bloodshot, and red and somewhat swollen. The family have a talk and it's realized that Jordan has the powers. He was the one that saved his brother from the pipes in the barn earlier. Jon is actually okay with this, as it means his athleticism is natural, not from powers. I like this! I like they didn't go the whole "I hate you cause you got powers and I didn't" route. It's refreshing.

Clark and Lois have decided to keep the farm, and they're going to move the family there. Clark admits to Jordan that he hasn't been there for him, and he's going to be from now on.

Cut to Baddie in a snowy mountainous area entering his ship. Blah, blah, blah, bad guy monologuing to ship's AI. AI calls him 'Captain Luthor'. Bwa? Okay, this takes place in the Arrowverse, and we already have a Lex Luthor over on Supergirl. So I'm going to lay my guess out right now. This is a future Luthor, not Lex, but A Luthor. And he's traveled to the past because he believes Superman does, or doesn't, do something that dooms the Earth. Hence, him coming from a 'doomed' planet.

Whew.... that's a lot of typing. They say that some shows have to have time to 'find their legs to get running' . If that's true for this show.... OMG! I can't wait to see more, cause I LOVED this first episode! I went in hyped and excited, in case you couldn't tell, but also worried that it was going to go the way of the Synder.

Thank you CW for getting it right!

EDIT : I was typing this while you posted Benton. And if you can't tell, I am tickled pinker then my actual hair.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 24, 2021, 05:56:24 AM
Mikey, I think he likes it.  ^_^ You beat me to it.

QuoteBut to me, it was the moral center of the character, that drew me to him.

I always thought that was what everyone liked about Superman. Superman isn't a random Dragon Ball Z character, like most good or great superhero characters, the personality and writing is what makes them truly stand out, not simply his powerset.

Anyway, I watched the thing.  :D

In Canada, the broadcast was 90 minutes, ending at 10:30 PM. I don't know if the U.S. broadcast padded out the "2 hour premiere" with interview footage or somesuch, but I'm glad it wasn't 2 hours, because it would have gone on a bit long that way. This was right in the pocket.

I liked it a lot. I didn't hate any of it, and I enjoyed enough of it. It is definitely Superman.

The kids are angsty for sure, and the one kid is given a pretty shaky first impression. I think it could have done in a way that could have leveled off better and made him more likable from the start, but it levels out real good.

Based on my experience with the comics version, Clark's son Jonathan is NOTHING like the comics. He's very much in that highschool athlete mode, or at least for most of this episode anyway. I'm curious what those who read Supersons think of the tv version of him.

Fun fact: At one point it was considered that it would be one son and one daughter. At first I was like "Why didn't you do that?" But when you watch the episode it actually works very well for what they're going with. Lana and her new family are set up to have a very big role in this show, so you have a few different characters to put the spotlight on.

I can now say that Tyler was born to play Superman. He didn't have much to do in Supergirl and Crisis - just show up, smile, and say the right things. But here all the stuff you expect of the character shines through. He's got that warmth and humanity you want to see, and while challenged by the world by him, is not compromised by it.

This thing looks gorgeous. Whatever they spent on this pilot, I have no doubt it won't keep for the whole season, but they put a lot of money and effort into their first impression. While I said a snarky "gettin' sick of your lens flare, Abrams!" a few times, even that works with the sun coming in, and these people know how to make the red on Superman's costume look awesome (that shot from the promos, if you've seen it) The action scenes we see with Supes fighting our antagonist had me saying "Why do they need Zach Snyder again?"

"Superman for 2021" does indeed have a lot of broad talk about things that would be talked about in 2021, (this is a CW show, after all) but it wasn't too bad IMO? But then again, the "Agent Liberty" season of Supergirl was by far my favorite season of the show, so I'm hardly going to mark this down for some talk about layoffs.

I was very impressed with "The Stranger". I can't wait to see more of him. The new actress for Lana took some getting used to, but Lana seems to be a different character in basically everything, so I can roll with it.

Here's one for you old-school fans: a future episode will feature a supporting character whose last name is "Beppo" from Beppo the Super Monkey.  ^_^

There seemed to be no references to the Arrowverse whatsoever, unless I missed them, and Sam Lane and Morgan Edge have been recast. It almost seems like the Arrowverse never even happened in this. It's a great tactic to attract new viewers, but to not reference Supergirl is a bit of an omission. Perhaps later episodes will ease into it, but for those who don't know, this show will be taking part in mini crossover based around Diggle from Arrow. Timeline wise, it should be interesting, as it seems they jumped forward in time to age up the kids, so I don't know if it's going to be time travel or if Diggle is going to team up with Flash and then right after "YEARS LATER"?

QuoteOkay someone should take Zach Synder duct tape him to a chair, Clockwork Orange his eyes open, and make him watch this over and over!

It's so true. Whoever directed this should be getting talks to direct a DC movie right the heck now.  Or maybe they should just stay here and keep making this awesome show.

Spoiler


I LOVED the opening few minutes. It was like an entire long-running Superman series in the span of several minutes, and I fanboyed out when I saw him in the Golden Age costume.

Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit weird to have Superman's kids crushing on the daughter of his ex-girlfriend? I mean, it's not technically wrong. It just seems weird to me, like if Smallville had Clark's son dating the daughter of Kristen Kreuk's Lana.

Lana's husband is a real heel in this. The firefighter job did level things off in a way that can make things interesting (several of these supporting characters are series regulars) but every single other thing he said, and the southern hic voice the actor gave him really marked him as a jerk who seems like he could be a real troublemaker in future stories.

"Captain Luthor" made a very impressive showing. I liked the look of the warsuit, I liked the actor's voice, and the story tease seems intriguing (he's apparently an alternate universe Luthor, which can be a lot of fun). I can't wait to see more of him, he cemented himself as a bad$$ Luthor in far less screentime than even Jon Cryer did in Supergirl (not counting the trailer for those episodes, which did the job in about 2 minutes or less)

QuoteOkay, so he's not kryptonian. Good. Anyway, he says the villainous diatribe that all bad guys must spout. (It's in the Bad Guy Handbook) And then he stabs Supes with a kryptonite knife embedding in his chest and Clark plummets towards earth.

"Hey? That an RPG? YOU GOT AN ARR. PAY. GEE?

Wha-wait wait wait, can't we talk about this? You ain't going to monologue or nothing, give the bad guy speech?"

Samuel L. Jackson, Afro Samurai.

I was totally expecting it to be Luthor. I think the Kryptonian armor (perhaps he got actual Kyptonian armor and repurposed it for himself) was a red herring.

What I liked about that fight (other than the actor's speech and the gorgeous action) is that this really feels like the most stressful time in Superman's life. Not worst, most stressful.

Future Luthor is possible. I'm reminded of Kyrpton, which featured the often great Colin Salmon as a time displaced General Zod, and he was pretty great in that.

Legion of Superheroes also featured "Alexis Luthor".


Is it March 2, yet?  :P
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: BentonGrey on February 24, 2021, 11:50:45 PM
Man, ND, I think I'm going to have to make you my barometer for Superman stuff.  Haha, I love your enthusiasm and love for the character.  I'm glad y'all liked this.  It sounds pretty good, despite the angsty-ness.  I may have to track it down if it stays good.

I do have to say, though, that the whole not telling his kids thing is such a stupid plot device that it makes me shake my head every time I think about it. 
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on February 25, 2021, 02:14:14 AM
As someone who rolls his eyes at that normally, 1. There's justification in series about that, 2. Lois repeatedly and correctly calls him out over it, and 3. It lasts one episode.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on February 25, 2021, 02:57:58 AM
Which is also more or less why I'm not that bothered by this show's iteration of Jonathan.

QuoteI'm glad y'all liked this.  It sounds pretty good, despite the angsty-ness.  I may have to track it down if it stays good.

I recommend it. It's another example of "I guarantee you will not like this as much as us" but it's a really nice palate cleanser after almost a decade of the DCEU and the Arrowverse losing a bit of steam after Crisis.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on March 05, 2021, 02:08:11 AM
 I waited a couple of days to see if anyone else was going to say anything on this. I know I have read some people's thoughts about the show elsewhere, and they seem to be judging the show on things that may, or may not, have happened outside of the show. That it was why Lois was a 'non-entity' in the show. Blah, Blah Blah  :rolleyes:

Okay, real quick, I want to go on a big of a tangent/rant. Just to preface this, it is not against anyone who has posted here.

[offtopic]Why do people say they want to see more comic-based TV shows, movies, or toons, but then look for reasons to complain about the show? I'm not talking about having an opinion, or defending it. Or having issue if things are changed from the source material. What I mean is, actively looking for reason to knock these shows or movies. Picking apart things like camera angles, nitpicking tiny issues like they make shows horrible. I like nitpicking things in fun. I used to have the 'Nitpickers guide to Star Trek'. It never detracted from my enjoyment of ST. I've read books about behind the scenes of ST, but I'm still a fangirl. I know the stories of the in-fighting and shady handlings of things in comics past (Bill Finger's treatment, the whole 'Who created Spider-Man' controversy, etc.), but I still enjoy comics. So my thing is, why be a fan of something, if all you ever want is to see the negative of things.

Okay rants over.[/offtopic]

Okay. yes, Lois was not a major focus of the first episode. But she wasn't a piece of set dressing, either. She stood up to her father, who is a four-star general. And to her husband, who is freakin' Superman, mind you.

Okay onto the second show. And again, I'm happily pleased with this show.

Spoiler
Just one thing, I'm not going to be going beat by beat like I did about the first show. I'm going to just cover some of my thoughts on it.

Okay I was wrong about Captain Luthor. He's not from the future, but an alternate Earth. We get to see some flashes of this world. He served in a military unit under his world's Gen. Lane, who evil Supes kills. I never considered that idea because I thought all the Earths merged at the end of Crisis. They might have alluded to there still being other Earths and I missed it. But they brought back the black suit for evil Superman too. (As a Goth girl, I have to object to this. Black isn't evil, it's just moody. Goatees are evil, Star Trek has shown us that.)

We get to see Clark take Jordan to the fortress of solitude (FoS, henceforth). Okay, a couple things here, nitpicky things that are silly and don't take away from it. I understand him having Jordan bundle up for the cold, but he's Superman. Why's he wearing a toboggan and all? He's Superman. Next, the FoS is wayyyyy different from how they had it in Supergirl. Couldn't they just used the same set? We get to see Jor-El's AI, and we see the crystal Jordan got from the space ship last episode. I do love that later on Jordan and John are talking and Jordan refers to the AI as 'HoloGramps', that just struck me as funny. (Hologram, HoloGramps :lol:) And we also find out that Jordan apparently can't focus and use his powers at will. Also, Clark and Jor-El can't say 'heat vision', it's 'occular projection'. I didn't know 'super-grammer' was a power. Jordan gets upset at hearing he will never be as powerful as his dad.

Okay, I'm going to have another couple theories. These are about Jordan's powers. Jordan and John are twins, yet only one has shown powers. I think a way this may work is John is the battery and Jordan is the outlet. In the comics, when Superman died, the Eradicator (the Visored Last Son of Krypton) wasn't able to properly store and convert solar energy like Superman. So he used Superman's body to collect and convert solar energy, and he absorbed it to 'run' his own powers. I think this is how the twins might be working. Both times Jordan did any power stunts, he was very close to John. So when I mentioned in my last post, I thought they might split their powers, I may have been close. And I think part of what happened is due to Crisis. Before Crisis, Lois and Clark had one child, and afterwards became twins.

Back to the show. I said it looked like they took some of the 'Clark and Lois' comic too, and they did. Lois digs into why Morgan Edge is buying up property in Smallville. She never left the Daily Planet, only Clark lost his job. We get to see some more of Lana and Tool. (I declare from now on his name is Tool, until such time as he earns a proper name) and another lady that seems to be interested in watching Lois. Lois attends a town meeting that Morgan Edge happens to be attending, and we find out the lady works for the local paper. Lois, being Lois, kicks up a hornet's nest, by tossing uneasy questions out to Edge. She writes an article on the shady goings on for the Planet, but it gets re-written. And she gets massively POed. She ends up quitting the Planet and going to work for the local paper to continue investigating Edge. She also has another good scene with Clark that shows why he needs her so much. She doesn't treat him like a god, or hero, but like a person. She's his grounding rod, the north on his compass so to speak. She's not eye candy, she's the rock that Superman needs to lean on sometimes. And to be that kind of force of personality is alot, and they have been showing that with Lois. When he needs comfort and direction, she's there for him. But she's also there when he needs his course corrected too. 

We get to see Superman and Luthor go at it again. And *GASP* another Super fight where cities WEREN'T leveled. I didn't think such things were possible! (She says sarcastically) The fight was really good, and Luthor loses his ship to distract Superman so he can escape. He also makes contact and tries to convince our Gen. Lane that Superman might not always be good.

And now, onto the twins. They keep swerveballing me. They keep making me think they're going to go into the classic 'bro vs bro' standard, but then they pull back out. John lashes out at Clark and Jordan, because they moved away for Jordan, upending his love life, his athletics, etc. He bonds with Lois, as they are the 'normal' ones that get left behind and have to give up everything. *Sigh* No, not the OMG DRAMAS! But then they do something nice, something refreshing. Jordan ponies up to this fact, and apologizes to his brother. And not only does John accept it, he tells Jordan that they'll figure out how to get his powers working. I love this! I love the fact that they argue, call each other names, get mad, but at the end of the day, they have each other's backs. Please CW, don't change that! Cain and Abel might be an interesting pair of siblings, but not all of them have to hate each other. 

So, yeah. I'm still very happy with this show. I'm glad it's showed off more of Lois to quell the naysayers. And that their not falling into some standards for CW shows (at least not as bad, there still is the OMG DRAMAS moments.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on March 05, 2021, 03:11:07 AM
So the status quo on the Multiverse is, things got mixed around (canonically this is why Titans and Doom Patrol are on different earths now), and the walls between universes are a bit tougher to get across (leading to the incorrect belief in the "Arrowverse" shows that it's completely gone) but the Multiverse *is* still around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-5fw_4RSr8

Stargirl is on the new Earth 2 IIRC, and they just announced Jay Garrick will be showing up over there.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on March 05, 2021, 03:35:11 AM
 :doh: I totally forgot that part. But in my defense, I was jazzed on excitement, sugar, and caffeine. (I don't drink soda as a rule, but I had root beer to celebrate watching the new show) It might have shown in my post about the first show.  ;)   
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on March 05, 2021, 03:53:27 AM
tbf, it's actually a pretty common mistake. People just sort of gloss over that ending bit, and pretty much all the main universe shows have maintained that the Multiverse is gone and have had plotlines centered around that misconception.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 05, 2021, 05:12:26 AM
QuoteI waited a couple of days to see if anyone else was going to say anything on this.

Me too. I'm still quite pleased with the show. I did snark last week that that level of detail and production value wouldn't keep up, but it's still looking good so far. I still love how they contrast the bright red on Superman cape and costume with the more drab colors of basically everything else. The whole show kinda feels like everyone involved was trying to tell the movie guys "this is how you do it."

As for nitpicking and being negative towards the show.

[offtopic]

1. Well, speaking for myself, it can be fun to riff on something, whether you actually enjoyed it or not. In some cases it's far more enjoyable than absorbing the content itself. I hated Tenet, but I sure loved reviewing it.

2. Marvel vs DC might be part of it. My local comic book store has the most ridiculous DCEU vs MCU bias you may very well ever see, and I now actually avoid saying anything that would set him off about it because when he talks about it he's just in his own little world that makes me question his taste when he recommends a comic or somesuch. Oh, the stories I could tell...

3. Also speaking for myself, I'm an Mario and Zelda fan from early childhood, and my nephew was big into Pokemon as a youngling, something we still bond over to this day. So for me being heavily critical in certain respects often comes from a place of love and wanting to see improvement. I don't have that problem with this Superman show, but there is a level of frustration with say, the post-Crisis Arrowverse (darn you Flash! Be better!)

4. There might be a sense of trying to hang with the "cool kids" because it's hip to hate on certain shows. At the local comic book store the people who work there are unabashed DC fans through and through, and when I do talk about them, I try to largely keep in the pocket of stuff we can agree about (I would attempt to do this with IRL friends I had a few years ago as well) and try to avoid setting them up on a ridiculous rant. Or to give another example, I was a Lost and Heroes fan back in the day and it got real hip to hate on those shows, and I'll indulge in a little bit of a jab at the expense of the later seasons for fun but I always remember that there was something there that did keep me tuning in.

[/offtopic]

As for Lois, I did have a smidgen of a concern that she didn't have quite enough to do in the extra long pilot to Superman & Lois. And by "to do" I kinda mean a plot to call her own - this definitely blossomed in the second episode, and indeed the seed for that was planted in the pilot, but I held my tongue on it and I'm glad I did, because they definitely gave her a worthwhile plot in this episode. It's a very Lois-appropriate plot.

Spoiler


QuoteBut they brought back the black suit for evil Superman too. (As a Goth girl, I have to object to this. Black isn't evil, it's just moody. Goatees are evil, Star Trek has shown us that.)

It is a bit of a tradition though, and a way to use a different Superman costume they might not get to use otherwise.

QuoteI understand him having Jordan bundle up for the cold, but he's Superman. Why's he wearing a toboggan and all?

Maybe he just likes dressing like that? He's done it in other things, one of which was BvS when he goes up into the mountains. It also helps make him look less suspicious if anyone happens to be up there for some reason.

QuoteNext, the FoS is wayyyyy different from how they had it in Supergirl. Couldn't they just used the same set? We get to see Jor-El's AI, and we see the crystal Jordan got from the space ship last episode.

Now this one I DO have a serious answer for. I'm going off the assumption that this takes places several years later compared to the rest of the Arrowverse, as I mentioned last week (the kids are noticeably older, after all), so maybe he upgraded the FoS or had to rebuild it after some supervillain altercation that resulted in it looking different? Yeah, that's me making up an explanation, but I do think it's a legit possibility in this world.

You may very well be right about Jordan and John's powers. I saw someone online joke that they're the Wonder Twins, which, yeah, pretty much.

QuoteWe get to see some more of Lana and Tool. (I declare from now on his name is Tool, until such time as he earns a proper name)

I'd been going back and forth on how much of a tool Tool is in this show, but no, he indeed a massive heel.

Quoteanother lady that seems to be interested in watching Lois. Lois attends a town meeting that Morgan Edge happens to be attending, and we find out the lady works for the local paper.

That's Beppo, the character named after the Super-Monkey.  ^_^

QuoteWe get to see Superman and Luthor go at it again. And *GASP* another Super fight where cities WEREN'T leveled. I didn't think such things were possible! (She says sarcastically) The fight was really good, and Luthor loses his ship to distract Superman so he can escape. He also makes contact and tries to convince our Gen. Lane that Superman might not always be good.

Yeah, I'm still rather impressed with the fights and with this version of Luthor. We still don't know much about him, but what we do know is he is a very sound tactical mind, and fortunately the writers aren't making Superman an idiot to stack the deck in his favor unfairly.

Supes even outright said what I said last week - that this stage in his life has been especially stressful.

I agree with the kids. One scene I'll be tempted to write them off, then by the end of the episode I'll be like "Yeah, they're all right."


Yeah, this show's still really quite great.

QuoteSo the status quo on the Multiverse is, things got mixed around (canonically this is why Titans and Doom Patrol are on different earths now)

That does line up very well with the DP show, so it would have been strange if they didn't go that route (and they were going to in the scrapped Titans S1 finale, which would have featured the DP from their own show)

Also I just scanned through that clip and realized that exact group of characters is probably never going to team up again onscreen, and that made me a bit sad.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Nyte Dragon on March 05, 2021, 04:55:31 PM
 Right off the bat, I wanna hit into the nitpicking part of my off-topic comments.

[offtopic]I'm all for nitpicking and riffing on stuff, (Big MST3K fan) when it's done in fun. When it's done just solely to be negative, to detract from the enjoyment of something, that's what I don't get. Everyone is allowed to like and dislike what they want. I was raised with a teaching of 'Just because you feel you're right, doesn't always mean the other person is wrong.' (My momma was a wise woman.)

If your passionate about a subject, and there's something you're not happy with, I think it's great to debate it. (The 'Joker' movie, for example. I loved the movie, disturbing as hell, great acting, and even made the make-up creepy. But I hate they made Bruce Wayne a pre-teen/teen in it and Arthur is late 30s/40s. That would mean Batman would basically fighting a retiree. But it's still a great movie.)

If you don't like something, walk away from it, ignore it. Why spend time being negative on something you didn't like in the first place? 'Steel' movie? What 'Steel' movie? That's just an urban legend to scare fans. Notice I never down the Synder-Illogy. (MoS, BvS, JL) I loath, loath most of MoS, but it has moments, glimmers of what it could have been. ('You are my son!', so heart-felt, so good. Little Clark running around with a cape. ) But, some people enjoyed the movies, and that's their right to do so. I focus my vile on Synder and the choices he made. For the most part, I ignore it. Life has enough negatives, especially in this time, so why focus towards more negatives?

Oh, and I agree, Flash needs to get better. But I know that due to the Pandemic they had to cut things short. So last season seemed unfinished. Even now you can see a few things, like they rarely have more then three people in a camera shot (I'm guessing for health reasons). But let's hope things pick up, and Flash embodies great hope. (Blackest Night Reference)[/offtopic]

Now onto the showwww....

Spoiler
The 'Daily Planet take over' story has been done many times in the past. Lex and Edge have done it in the comics. Tess Mercer did it in Smallville. Darkseid, Batman, and even Marvel's Kingpin have owned it. And in alot of those, it was either Lois or Clark that found shenanigans to get the Planet back in the right hands.

And in the 'Clark and Lois' comic, pre-52 Clark and Lois survived Flashpoint/Convergance, and were living on a farm under the last name White. Lois worked at the local newspaper, and wrote books that exposed Intergang under another alias. She even had a super-pager in the comics, just like in the show.

And I have no problems with the black suit.... as long as we don't get THIS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-4qCX1ty-Y)!  :blink:

I like the explanation on the FoS. I can totally see that having happened.

And yeah, Capt. Luthor is good. He's not evil for evil's sake. He's basically seen 'Injustice' Superman wipe out his world. (Which as I type this, I realize we got to watch Jordan play last episode. HOLY SCHNICKY!! They pretty much laid it right there in front of us, and we didn't get it! Well played sirs and ma'ams!) He legitimately thinks he's saving our world.

I'm also glad they do give Clark credit in not being a big ol' dumb hero. Alot of people make the mistake that Superman is all brawn, no brains.

"I'm Sooperman! I make punchy-unchy with the laser eyes! Up, up, and I'm outta here!"

He's not a tactician on the level of J'onn J'onzz or Batman, but he has smarts. He's a world-renowned journalist and he's had years of practice with his powers. 

And speaking of sad, I found out Supergirl is on it's last season. I'm not surprised, as the show has lost it's course over the last season or so, but definitely sad. Supergirl had Nicole Maines as Dreamer, who's the first Transgender hero on TV
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 06, 2021, 12:38:04 AM
As I've said before, I've found the Arrowverse has been doing downhill since Crisis ended. Flash....my main problem with it is 1. I don't like the Mirror Master plot 2. I don't find they use Cisco and Caitlan enough. I think the whole Killer Frost thing ended up being a mistake.

QuoteAnd speaking of sad, I found out Supergirl is on it's last season. I'm not surprised, as the show has lost it's course over the last season or so, but definitely sad. Supergirl had Nicole Maines as Dreamer, who's the first Transgender hero on TV

I think Dreamer is one of the best characters on the show, and one of the better ones in S5. S5 was....eh. I'm ok-ish with it having one more season and hoping for a suitably good finale.

Injustice video game being shown in the pilot....I didn't even think of that. Mortal Kombat (by WB and the same dev team) was shown in later seasons of Arrow (Zari was also shown playing MK....2 I think, in Legends) so I almost didn't think anything of it....except that the idea that Injustice 2 exists in the world of the Arrowverse fries my brain. I'm choosing to believe it's a similar-looking game that is not actually the same.

Oh, before I forget, I have some unfortunate news. In three weeks Supergirl S6 will premiere and take over Superman & Lois' time slot, and S&L will go on a hiatus until May 18.  :o
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on March 06, 2021, 06:32:40 AM
I think there's been a noticeable dip yes, but I think that's only natural given that SO MUCH was put into crisis and its lead up. Flash in particular suffered in general, with the first half season just kinda feeling like it was marking time, relying on crisis for the few character bits we got. Add in the fact that we now have to drag out the Mirror Master stuff looong past its intended length (it was clearly just meant to cover half a season, now it needs to last until the midway point of this season) plus covid times derailing production... I don't expect things to really improve this year, at least not for awhile.

As for Superman... A lot of the criticism on it stems from a writer calling out some issues in the writers room, but how much of that is legitimate and how much is she got fired and is upset... Who knows.

I will say though... This is the first series in the entire Berlanti staple of shows not to have certain major representations right out of the gate (such as black characters that aren't antagonists), and... That's worrisome tbh. Like, on the one hand, I get it... The core cast is a family, and you can't really have adopted kids given the angle they go with. But there's supporting characters they could easily insert (Pete Ross, Clark's childhood best friend, could be brought in as a politician in Edge's orbit, serving a role like Lana's husband, but less antagonistic) or cast different (the editor from Smallville's paper). Saying "well what can they do, Superman and Lois were already both white" is a failure of imagination.

I should note though, I do enjoy the show. Frankly, I think that issue is an easy fix (they just need to add more supporting cast members, something most shows do anyway as they go on). It's far, FAR harder to nail Superman, and imho they've done that. The show isn't fundamentally flawed, it's just in need of some patching.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 06, 2021, 08:39:50 AM
I view the gradual decline of the Arrowverse in general as a kind of "death by a thousand cuts". There's a few issues, some of which I've talked about before. The Wells gag getting dragged out to hell and then shopped to multiple other shows didn't help.

QuoteFlash in particular suffered in general, with the first half season just kinda feeling like it was marking time, relying on crisis for the few character bits we got. Add in the fact that we now have to drag out the Mirror Master stuff looong past its intended length (it was clearly just meant to cover half a season, now it needs to last until the midway point of this season) plus covid times derailing production... I don't expect things to really improve this year, at least not for awhile.

If nothing else, they've said we'll get more Cisco and Caitlan later, and more Thawne and Godspeed, so hopefully at some point things will pick up a bit.

QuoteAs for Superman... A lot of the criticism on it stems from a writer calling out some issues in the writers room, but how much of that is legitimate and how much is she got fired and is upset... Who knows.

I really was out of the loop on that. I didn't know about any of that. Had to run a quick google search to get an idea.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on March 06, 2021, 12:38:59 PM
I only know about it because KKhohoho posted about it in the discord, but it really just hammered in some concerns I had from the start as well. Admittedly, the other big one (arguably the one said writer was most passionate about in her rebuke) was strong female representation, which... I don't think is really accurate. Elizabeth Tulloch, who plays Lois, has been fairly believable as a hard bitten reporter not afraid to do her job in the face of powerful opposition. I think it also helps that she's clearly a fan of the character. Sure, episode 1 was a bit weaker (and I was admittedly concerned she was gonna be sidelined as "the mom", but in hindsight even that set up her character arc fighting Morgan Edge.

And yeah, Lana and her daughter both seem to just kind of accept abusive behaviors(either from the firefighter dad who we are admittedly seeing more layers to, or the jock boyfriend who's kind of a jerk), but making every female character a "girl boss" would be a mistake, and that's clearly part of the daughter's own character arc.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 10, 2021, 05:01:03 AM
Episode 3 was....episode 3....
It's still good, but some aspects of the show are getting spotlighted over others, and for now I'm ok with that. The production values are still very much holding up, and that makes me happy.

Spoiler

No Captain Luthor whatsoever in this episode. This week the threat comes from superpowered individuals working for Morgan Edge.
The way the show has a nonchalent approach to metas for hired and/or experimental metas feels like it knows the audience watching this knows how this whole business works by now, which is cool.

Superman....well, on the one hand, that fight scene was amazing! And once again, Superman isn't an idiot when he goes into action, using his freezing breath at the perfect time for a tactical advantage. Also they're calling it heat vision again, yay.

On the other hand, Clark making a lot of dubious decisions in this episode had me checking the writers for all three of these episodes to see if someone else wrote this (different writers each episode) because that's something I do these days. Clark had to have known some of the stuff he said and did wouldn't go over well with the kids.

On the other other hand (Oh no, three hands!), Jordan's infamous line "EVERYTHING YOU DO IS A MISTAKE" from the promos DOES make more sense in context, even if it's still an awful thing to say (Dude, it's Superman)

This show makes me go "Poor Clark" every few minutes. Guy's trying so hard to be a good husband and father. To paraphrase the theme song to Scrubs, even Superman's no Superman.

Also at this rate Clark and Lois are going to have a drinking problem with how often they break out the wine.

Biggest diss to Superman though...Jordon dropping Injustice for the X-Box Killer Instinct. Cold blooded.

Speaking of family drama....there's also Lana's family.

One of the things about this show is criticizing the teenage angst in the show feels extremely....inappropriate? Because two of the kids (Jordan and Sarah) are being saddled with some very serious mental health problems, and so it's not wrong, but it is extremely awkward. The diner scene had me asking why Jordan and Jon didn't try to get the heck out of dodge.

"Sophie bullies all the kids in her class." Assuming I heard that line correctly, Sophie actually has a personality in this show? Because it's hard to tell with how little screentime she has. She's like Anthony from Cobra Kai or Chris from Homeland, the sibling who has basically nothing to do in the show.


Also this episode had a Snyder cut ad airing during the commercials, and the irony of that is pretty darn funny.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 12, 2021, 06:42:17 AM
You know, I gotta say the one thing that's been really impressing about this show is Superman himself.  Not just his powers or the look(which I'm glad they fixed the costume and is probably the best super suit I've seen on the character), but the one thing that sets Superman apart from practically every other hero is the epic and grand and epic feats of heroism. Like the kind of thing that only we'd see Superman do. Catching airplanes out of the sky. using a block of ice he froze to put out a catastrophic fire.  That's the thing that makes Superman to me. And we've practically see these on every episode. Yeah, I like the intrigue so far, with them not just throwing one or two plot twist at us but now a third. All of that outside of the main family plot.

Also gotta say I'm pleased with the cast. Maybe it was just me, but I could have swore that Jordan and Jonathan were ACTUAL brothers in real life. Comparing their looks to me and my twin brother and how different we look through my eyes, that's how I saw them. I been pleased with Hochlin's casting going back on SG. Tulloch is... fine(I guess). And I know someone said something before but I think Lana Lang was perfectly cast with Emmanuelle Chriqui. If not properly characterized. Which also leads to the issues I'm having.

First of all, yeah, they seem to completely ignoring everything from the Arrowverse. Yeah, I think they threw us off with the first episode's ending reveal, but as mentioned, Sam Lane and Morgan Edge being recast.  Which is fine. But I would expect continuity to mean something after Crisis. I just hope they keep one of the real gems from the prior continuity: Jon Cryer. (pleasepleasepleasePLEASEkeephim)

Lastly one of my bigger problems with the series so first, even though they're somewhat skating around it a bit at times...

WE HAD TEN YEARS OF A SUPERMAN SHOW IN SMALLVILLE! WHY IN GOD'S NAME DO WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER!!?
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 12, 2021, 08:59:45 AM
QuoteAnd I know someone said something before but I think Lana Lang was perfectly cast with Emmanuelle Chriqui.

If you meant me on here, I said it took some getting used to. By my which I mean I'm used to Lana being either Kristen Kreuk (she was a series regular for most of Smallville's ten season run) or a woman with long red hair, as in the cartoons and comics. Not to say she's bad in this, just that it was different. Like getting used to a character having a different voice in a game or animated project.

QuoteSam Lane and Morgan Edge being recast.  Which is fine. But I would expect continuity to mean something after Crisis.

I do not consider recasting of characters to inherently be a continuity error. It can break the immersion, but it doesn't technically violate it on a story level. Except for the times where a series does acknowledge it of course. Lest we forget, there was a time when Rhodey wasn't played by Don Cheadle and Banner wasn't played by Mark Ruffalo. And Sara Lance wasn't played by Caty Lotz for that matter.

If that wasn't what you meant, sorry. Because I was a bit confused on that.

QuoteI just hope they keep one of the real gems from the prior continuity: Jon Cryer. (pleasepleasepleasePLEASEkeephim)

I'm with you on that, but with a caveat: as much as I loved Jon Cryer as Lex, IMO they really diluted the currency with him on Supergirl S5. Now, the sins of some other show are not the sins of Superman & Lois, and perhaps most importantly, we haven't gotten to see Cryer's Luthor vs Superman in the Superman show. That would presumably be the cool thing.

There is also the aging thing to take into consideration though. Supergirl covered their tracks by saying that Lex aged faster due to extensive Krytonite poisonings, since Cryer was so close in age to the actress playing Lillian Luthor, so if they did a flashback showing earlier encounters between Lex and Supes (something I seem to recall I suggested earlier in this thread or an earlier one) they've have to decide whether to de-age Cryer, recast him, or simply leave it as is.

QuoteWE HAD TEN YEARS OF A SUPERMAN SHOW IN SMALLVILLE! WHY IN GOD'S NAME DO WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER!!?

For story and character reasons?  :P Also, if you want to get technical, the last season or two of Smallville WAS set in Metropolis, so it wasn't actually ten seasons of Smallville set in Smallville (plus you know, it's Lois' nickname for Clark)
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 14, 2021, 10:16:48 AM
Little off topic but I just realize where I've seen the actor that plays Morgan Edge from. Tyrant. Fascinating series if you've never seen it.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 16, 2021, 03:05:00 PM
https://screenrant.com/superman-lois-arrow-supergirl-villain-problem-other-heroes/?utm_source=SR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=SR-FB-P

Thought this was an pretty relevant caution for this series though I don't think they will and they shouldn't have this problem. But it was a frustration I had with Arrow and DEFINITELY with Supergirl.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on March 16, 2021, 08:38:43 PM
See, a lot of the gripes in that article are about Superman using... Superman villains. Like yeah, they appeared in Supergirl first, but the crisis leaves enough of a window where they can reimagine and retcon old villains into the new show.

As for arrow... Eh. Like, having their own takes on other villains didn't really bother me, Deathstroke worked out well and Damian was hardly a character beforehand. Really, the one that bothered me was Ra's, only because it wasn't their own take or just how oliver interacted with this character... It was straight up the story between Ra's and bruce with oliver's name scratched in.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 17, 2021, 05:28:34 AM
I also think that's a flawed article.

For starters, it's only a villain "problem" if you consider it a problem. There's a context behind all of it.

I just had episode 4 on while I was writing this, and it had a creepy-as-hell Superman villain onscreen as I wrote this sentence, who was basically a mix of Cryer's Lex and Toyman. I think we're good.

Plus, you know, this is a "Superhero show" the way Watchmen was a superhero movie. The superhero element is a secondary element to this show. I wasn't even sure Supes was going to have his costume on this week.

-Arrow was heavily Batman inspired (I loved it, but I pegged it as a Batman Begins ripoff about 15 minutes into the pilot) so Ra's makes sense, plus they need a explanation for where these characters are getting their skills = League of Assassin's, plus Neil Adams joked S2 was the "Neal Adams show", + Roy was part of the Titans, so having Titans stuff in it isn't unreasonable, plus Slade, like Doom, has eclipsed the original IP he came from. Arrow was also, for a time, focusing on non-powered villains while Flash went all in on the metahumans. You also had China White, Cupid, Merlyn - all Arrow villains, particularly from the Diggle run, which is what Arrow was also heavily based on. And I do think it's fair to bring up the ones that aren't season-long threats since Silver Banshee wasn't.

-Noone in the mainstream cared about GA before Arrow (several people, including myself, thought it was going to be a bomb) so having some well established villains people already like would give it a boost, and Slade wasn't just teased in the pilot, he was teased in the trailer.

-The article mentioned Silver Banshee. Silver Banshee was repurposed as a Supergirl villain in the comics, and she was a villain in a Supergirl-centric episode of JLU. That's kinda like complaining that Kingpin is in Daredevil. Plus Supergirl was heavily focusing on a lot of female villains because it was the first female-led CW/Arrowverse superhero show. They even opted to use Indigo instead of Brainiac initially. Reign was created as a Supergirl centric villain.

If you were to ask me what the "villain problem" was with the Arrowverse, my answer would be "the villains in the latter seasons are a bit lacking."

Anyway, this week on Superman and Lois.....the Morgan Edge plot confuses and baffles me, Lois didn't read the memo, Sophie still technically exists, and General Lane is a d*ck. That is all.

Though one thing...

Spoiler
What was up with that one kid at school? I got a bit distracted during the episode, so I might have to rewatch that stuff, but I didn't really follow that at all.

Next week, Clark gets nostalgic during a Harvest Festival and thinks about his mother MAAAAAARTHAAA. Should be good stuff.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Tomato on March 17, 2021, 05:00:39 PM
Real quick, I didn't mind league of assassins stuff, what they did with Talia (make her a mentor) was fine. But ra's making oliver his replacement was just Bruce's story, and it was annoying. Beyond that, they're dc villains, them showing up elsewhere has never been a thing.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 21, 2021, 11:14:11 AM
Rewatching select scenes of my recording of last week's episode so I could follow it better and take in the stuff I missed (The Arrowverse wiki also helps me understand what was going on):

Smallville high football player: "Here comes the star of Madden 21!"

Ok, so this takes place in 2021. According to the Arrowverse wiki, in the new Post-Crisis timeline, Clark and Lois married in 2000, and Jon and Jordon were born in 2007. Mind you, Supergirl and Flash ended their seasons on direct cliffhangers, so the timeline's a bit wonky.

As people on the Black Lightning subreddit pointed out (Jefferson went to get an item from STAR Labs offscreen), Black Lightning had time pass due to not ending its season on a cliffhanger, meaning the show's timeline is not entirely synched up.

Mind you, the line's still wrong, since Madden video games come out in December and carry the the following year in its title, so either they screwed up, or this show takes place in 2020.

In other Arrowverse news, the finale to Flash's Mirror Master arc was ridiculous, and a lot of fans of the Flash tv show were not impressed (and I'll admit I wasn't too impressed either).

Also Dreamer from Supergirl will be integrated into the DC comics universe in June. Neat.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 26, 2021, 03:54:30 PM
I have some more Arrowverse stuff to gush about:

QuoteI just hope they keep one of the real gems from the prior continuity: Jon Cryer. (pleasepleasepleasePLEASEkeephim)

Quoteas much as I loved Jon Cryer as Lex, IMO they really diluted the currency with him on Supergirl S5.

I don't know about Cryer in Superman and Lois, but the trailer for the return of Supergirl came out and Lex is causing all sorts of trouble in it. Looks like he and the show itself are about to get its groove back.

Speaking of which....

Batwoman:

Spoiler
The most recent episode brought back Kate Kane, who will be recast with Wallace Day from Krypton (a casting I and other people online are very pleased with). This pleases me greatly because Batwoman has really slipped in S2 as a direct result of having to write out the main character.

This makes me giddy as a schoolgirl as well because it means the once-promised (Kate Kane) Batwoman/Supergirl team up and her teaming up with the other characters could be back on the table.

Also they're about to do Black Mask, and after a pitch perfect Victor Zaszz appeared this season, I'm optimistic.

ALSO speaking of Arrowverse shows getting their groove back:

Flash:

Thank alrighty RAO the show is good again. And the biggest irony of all is one of the first legit good episodes in Flash in I don't know how long might be the first ever episode to not actually have Tom Cavanaugh in it.

Also, me at the end of the episode:

Spoiler
*Hard comedic cut to Cisco seeing Caitlin and Frost now separated as two people, and Cisco freaking the heck out.*
ME [within a split second of seeing this] YES THEY DID IT!!!

Also Flash featured a hilariously bad looking CGI villain at the end of the episode. The days of us all gushing over King Shark and Gorilla Grodd feel like a lifetime ago. This dude looked like he should be hanging out with the Scorpion King. Solomon Grundy from Stargirl probably looked better than whoever the heck that was supposed to be.
Title: Re: Superman & Lois Lane... The Series
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 26, 2021, 02:25:24 AM
So Superman and Lois came back last week.

Here's some things:

Here's an interesting article I read about the show.  (https://www.cbr.com/superman-lois-supergirl-easter-egg-cut/)

A Supergirl Easter Egg in the form of a photograph showing Kara, Clark and Lois didn't make it into the show.

"It got cut out for time, but when Lois quits [The Daily Planet] and she's walking down the hall towards the elevator and she grabs some things from her desk, one of the things she's holding is a picture with her, Kara and Clark,"

"Helbing told TV Line, saying there was no "intentional reason" why the nod was deleted. "There's been this weird set of circumstances where, because of production or timing or COVID, everything in the show that was related to the Arrowverse has gotten pulled out. It's just another one of those things."

"[The pandemic] just halted everything," Helbing said, explaining why the Arrowverse has forgone any and all traditional crossovers this season. "And the further away we got from the Crisis of it all, the more it felt like we were opening a can of worms every time we had to explain the connection. We'll see how this all pans out for next season. We don't know what's going to change [in Vancouver] or not. We're going to figure out what makes sense for our shows and for the others. We'll see what we can do and what we can't do, and then we'll make our decisions based on that."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This week on Superman and Lois:

Spoiler
Captain Luthor is actually John Henry Irons, aka Steel.

He has a daughter that's based on Nastasta Irons, who helped him build his power suit in a environment that looks like a steel mill, he uses the alias John Henry Irons, and he builds a high-tech hammer to fight Superman with.

I like this a lot. More of this please.

In an interview with his actor Wole Parks, he reveled they planned from the start for Captain Luthor to have a "redemption arc" and they decided a bit later "what if we made him John Henry Irons?". So it wasn't planned from the start.

This I actually kinda like. In episode 3 or 4, Luthor is d*cking around in an RV, and getting upset and smashing his future Skeets-like computer device. I disliked this as it made Luthor seem cool and collected, and it's a pet peeve of mine when character smash their equipment (though Luthor did that in an episode of JLU as well) but at the beginning of this episode he completely repairs the computer and the computer voice calls him out on smashing her.

This works more for me for Irons as he's always been more of a working man underdog. I like how this has shaken out.


In other news, it's just been announced that Flash will start S8 with a 5-episode mini-event featuring team-ups with other DC Arrowverse heroes. They're in talks to have Black Lightning be one of them.

Sounds like just the shot in the arm The Flash needs.