Freedom Reborn

Freedom Force Forums => Mods => Topic started by: BentonGrey on March 19, 2010, 04:39:56 PM

Title: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on March 19, 2010, 04:39:56 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Or just back from hiatus.  I know many people got the impression that I had given up on this thing, despite me constantly saying that I had taken a break on it, but that is the nature of the Information Age.  We have limitless info at our fingertips, but we don't have the time to take it all in. :P  Anyway, I've been quietly plugging away at this when the mood takes me, and I even somehow managed to talk the master of EZScript into helping me troubleshoot the old girl.  However, I haven't heard from him in a long time, and there are still a few buggy missions left.  I'm debating simply releasing it unfinished, as I'm, quite honestly, tired of it.  I don't know when I might be able to get everything working, and the three campaigns still work, as well as the beginnings of a handful of others.  The fourth full campaign (incorporated into the JLA story) is MOSTLY working, except, as I said, for the last few missions.  I'd really like for this to see the light of day, but at this point I just don't know that it will ever be finished.  What do we think?  If I had unlimited time, I'd go back and rebalance everything, but I'm just too tired to even attempt such a massive undertaking.


Alright.  I have uploaded the mod as it stands.  There are a number of issues, most notably the final campaign being partially buggy and still unfinished.  Also, the removal of certain art elements have left gaps.  I'm aware that they exist, but I haven't had the energy or the will to track them down and fill them with replacements.  If someone wants to make a list of which characters are effected and cares to find replacements, I'll update the mod with them, otherwise it's something we'll have to live with until I get around to messing with this again some day. 

Still, the mod includes the original three campaigns, plus the beginnings of Aquaman and Question campaigns, and the first two thirds of a JLA/JSA crossover incorporated into the end of JLA.

You can get it here:
http://bentongrey.wordpress.com/mods/

(By the way, it's also a couple gigs smaller than it used to be.  I cut down a lot of dead weight a while back.)
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: John Jr. on March 19, 2010, 04:47:51 PM
I can speak only by myself, but I really want to play this mod, so... Unfinished Mod is a lot better than no mod. Bring it on! :thumbup:
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: Trelau on March 19, 2010, 05:33:07 PM
I've been following your mod for a long time, and i never believed you had given up on it. I just really, really had faith that some day out of nowhere you would arrive on your white horse (or seahorse) with your finished mod to amaze us.
Apparently that day is today (well, close enough)
From what i understand, the content of the mod is almost "over", and if you lack the time and/or motivation to finish debugging a few mission in the fourth campaign, i'm pretty sure nobody will mind.
I'd like to say that i have the earlier removed-in-one-night version, and your few mission (white martian mission mostly) were really good, so if you already have three working campaign, that would be great to be able to play them.
Also, the motivating/debugging might be easier if you have feedback from people playing your mod, and it could be used (as i believed it was intended before) as a sandbox for other EZscript afficionados.So maybe in a year or two you'll be able to re-release it with your old missions fixed, a new campaign of your own, and why not a few campaign made by creator taking place in the DCUG? (a man can dream...)

So hell yeah, if you're willing to show us your work, i'll gladly have an unfinished mod over no mod too.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: yell0w_lantern on March 19, 2010, 07:17:27 PM
Since PCT is said to be close to finished maybe I should help out with DCUG instead.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: lugaru on March 19, 2010, 11:32:57 PM
You want to know the secret reason I have been waiting for this mod? The lovingly made DC hero files... I'm not a DC expert but I'm starting to get into the universe more and more. This would solve all my DC related problems overnight. Yeah, I know it is dc according to you, but I trust you except for the reality warping, 600 damage dealing Aquaman.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 19, 2010, 11:46:53 PM
You want to know the secret reason I have been waiting for this mod? The lovingly made DC hero files... I'm not a DC expert but I'm starting to get into the universe more and more. This would solve all my DC related problems overnight. Yeah, I know it is dc according to you, but I trust you except for the reality warping, 600 damage dealing Aquaman.

Don't be silly...he only deals 550 damage per punch....Thanks Lu, that's actually really encouraging to hear.  That was why I started all of this in the first place, to give people an intro into FF, but also into all the hidden corners of the DCU. 

YL, I think I may release it, and then if you want to help me figure stuff out after the fact, you're welcome to.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: John Jr. on March 19, 2010, 11:59:44 PM
My EZScript know-how is not so good as yours, Benton, but count me on if there is any way I can help.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 20, 2010, 02:18:55 PM
Even though it's not complete, you might as well release it. In fact, it would be the reason for me to reinstall FF2 after my old laptop died. (<_<) My advice? Release what you have, and if you ever work on it again, you can always rerelease it when you have it truly finished. It's what a lot of freeware games do, and it works. :)
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 21, 2010, 02:39:28 AM
Well, I've decided to release it, but I have a very important request to make!  Apparently, I shuffled files around at some point, and I lost my Question, Brave and Bold, and Green Arrow missions!  Does anyone have an early version of the DCUG?  If you've got those missions and story files, it would be a huge help.  I really hope I haven't lost those forever, because I doubt I could ever really recreate them!  Please, someone tell me that you've got this lying around somewhere.  I really don't want to have lost these.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: Trelau on March 21, 2010, 03:44:53 PM

edit: of wait, i hadn't seen the cross post discussion i move the message there
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: DrMike2000 on March 21, 2010, 10:13:56 PM
This is brilliant news, Benton.
All the work you've put in for this deserves to see the light of day.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 21, 2010, 10:22:26 PM
Thanks Dr. Mike, as before, your support (and perhaps even more importantly, your interest) means more than I can easily express.
Title: Re: DCUG...From Beyond the GRAVE!!!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 22, 2010, 04:42:27 PM
So, I'll be releasing this soon.  I'm going to regenerate the language files and update the readme tonight.  I think that's pretty much all I have the energy to do.

:EDIT: Uploading.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 23, 2010, 04:40:41 PM
DONE!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: yell0w_lantern on March 23, 2010, 06:55:57 PM
Great! So now you can pitch in on the Crossover Classic.  :P
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 23, 2010, 07:42:47 PM
Great! So now you can pitch in on the Crossover Classic.  :P

You might be able to talk me into doing a mission. :)
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: lugaru on March 23, 2010, 08:01:28 PM
Ugh, I wish I was at home and not in some office. Soon enough I guess, maybe I should use remote login to start downloading it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 23, 2010, 08:27:15 PM
That made me smile, Lu.  Thanks.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on March 23, 2010, 09:30:29 PM
that's a very good news! being a JSA fan, i'm really dying to play all those new storylines
but apparently i'm gonna have to wait for at least 3 hours and a half before download is finished :wacko:

as soon as i have a chance to play it, i'll be sure sur to let you know how much it blew my mind
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on March 23, 2010, 10:45:37 PM
I'll have to skip some sleep hours...
Thanks, Benton! I know I'm not the only relative newcomer looking forward to play your Mod.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: AfghanAnt on March 23, 2010, 10:48:19 PM
Alright! I've been dying to play this.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 24, 2010, 12:15:20 AM
Unfortunately, I've having problems with the downloads. I was was able to get the first two parts, and was able to start downloading parts 3&4, but then a phonecall caused the internet to shortly stop, (this happens to me quite a bit,) and thus the downloads stopped as well. Now, when I try to redownload the files, the Mediafire page reloads, and when I use 'Save As', all I get is 4.6 Kb's. Does anyone have any ideas as to what's wrong? Personally, I think the files should be uploaded to a Mirror, such as Mega-Upload, in case Mediafire isn't working right, like in my case.

EDIT: Interesting...Apparently, this only applies to parts 3&4. I was able to start download parts 5&6 no problem. It is possible that Mediafire thinks I'm still downloading parts 3&4? (Similar thing happened with Megaupload once, so that's why I'm asking.)
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Epimethee on March 24, 2010, 04:03:32 AM
Congrats for the release, Benton!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: lugaru on March 24, 2010, 12:06:21 PM
Is there a specific way to merge the archives? I was trying to do the generic "drag and drop out of one, the rest will follow" that I do when I download something in chunks but it keeps giving me some error. Has anyone installed this mod succesfully?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 24, 2010, 12:29:59 PM
Check the readme, Lu.  You need to use a .zip program, in which you select the merge option.  I use 7-Zip.  With that program, you select all of the files at the same time, then simply right click and choose "extract."  It will then combine it into a single .zip file.

Kk, I don't know what might be up with it.  Mediafire is occasionally a bit odd, and I imagine that the demand isn't helping much.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 24, 2010, 12:45:27 PM
Check the readme, Lu.  You need to use a .zip program, in which you select the merge option.  I use 7-Zip.  With that program, you select all of the files at the same time, then simply right click and choose "extract."  It will then combine it into a single .zip file.

Kk, I don't know what might be up with it.  Mediafire is occasionally a bit odd, and I imagine that the demand isn't helping much.

Nevermind that, got the files. Will play later today. :cool:
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: justintyme2174 on March 24, 2010, 01:44:04 PM
I've used Winrar, Winzip, and 7-zip and get error messages with every program.  I 've redownloaded all the files and still get the same errors.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: lugaru on March 24, 2010, 02:13:52 PM
I've used Winrar, Winzip, and 7-zip and get error messages with every program.  I 've redownloaded all the files and still get the same errors.

Yeah, I was using winrar since that is my favorite. One might be corrupt although we might want to hear from a couple more people before anyone makes you re-upload a whole gig of files.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: area34 on March 24, 2010, 02:15:47 PM
I couldn't get Win Rar to unpack it. 7-zip though gave me no problems.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: lugaru on March 24, 2010, 03:18:23 PM
I couldn't get Win Rar to unpack it. 7-zip though gave me no problems.

Brilliant! I'll give it a stab when I get home. I've got an hour between one census location and another so I should post by 2 pm if it worked for me.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 24, 2010, 04:07:59 PM
Yeah guys, it is certainly possible that some of them might be corrupt, as uploading files of this size is tricky.  Let me know if we keep having issues, although Area being able to unpack it makes me think that maybe it is just a compatibility problem between programs.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: area34 on March 24, 2010, 04:16:14 PM
I did get a warning on Gotham's pat_building_04a.dds. That might be whats hanging up other programs.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: TrajkLogik on March 24, 2010, 04:19:01 PM
I did get a warning on Gotham's pat_building_04a.dds. That might be whats hanging up other programs.

I got the same error using 7-zip.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 24, 2010, 04:27:45 PM
Hmm...sounds like I do need to try and re-upload.  That figures.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Blitzgott on March 24, 2010, 11:29:35 PM
Congrats on the release, BG.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 25, 2010, 12:58:51 AM
This looks great! However it will take me a long time to dl it(around 2 hrs per part if my dsl doesn't disconnect during the dl) so I am going to wait until those with faster speeds get it working.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on March 25, 2010, 02:03:54 PM
Hmm...sounds like I do need to try and re-upload.  That figures.
i got the pat building dds error too, does it mean i can't play the mod? do we have to wait for the fix/reupload or is it "safe" to launch?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 25, 2010, 03:49:54 PM
Hmm...sounds like I do need to try and re-upload.  That figures.
i got the pat building dds error too, does it mean i can't play the mod? do we have to wait for the fix/reupload or is it "safe" to launch?

My guess would be that it is safe to launch.  Assuming that either only that texture, or that group of textures are messed up.  The Batman campaign might be affected, but the rest would likely be fine.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on March 25, 2010, 03:52:28 PM
huzzah! i have campaigns to play :cool:
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: area34 on March 25, 2010, 04:12:17 PM
I got mine to launch. I went and copied in a new DDS over the warning one just to be safe. I haven't had time to really get into it so it might crash later in the game but from what I've seen there have been no problems.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 25, 2010, 06:25:23 PM
Alright, we're freshly uploaded, so we should be good to go.  I know that the archive itself is alright, because I tested it before I re-uploaded, but it's impossible to say for certain whether or not it was corrupted in the upload again.  Hopefully we're good to go.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: lugaru on March 25, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
My g.f. is going to get scared when she gets home an sees the computer tracking down and downloading files on it's own. I love remote access. I'll be testing by tomorrow (get out at 6, sleep 4 hours, back to work at midnight until noon tomorrow) and I'll let you know if I see anything odd.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 25, 2010, 07:13:56 PM
Ha, thanks Lu, don't wear yourself out!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 26, 2010, 04:16:56 PM
Part 2 is an invalid or deleted file when I try to start dling it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 26, 2010, 04:25:07 PM
I see that....I don't know how it happened, though.  I'll reupload this afternoon.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 26, 2010, 06:22:06 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 26, 2010, 08:19:24 PM
Uploading now, it should be finished in around 10 minutes.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 27, 2010, 02:21:47 AM
Ok I got it dled and used the latest 7 zip to extract it with a few art errors. It looks ok however when I try to start it it won't load. It just goes black like it is starting up but never actually does. This mod did take my free disk space down to 26%, could it be that be a problem? (I heard you are supposed to keep 25% free.)
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 27, 2010, 04:59:04 AM
Okay, you still got errors?  Did you try redownloading?  Has anyone downloaded the new files and combined them without errors?  It is a known issue that, because the DCUG is so huge, it can take several minutes to load.  How long did you give it?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 27, 2010, 02:05:44 PM
I gave it at least 5 minutes maybe more. How long should I give it? I have not redownloaded because that would take at least 12 hours with my dsl speed if everything goes well.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 27, 2010, 02:28:33 PM
Hmm....well, it takes around a minute to load up for my PC, but it's pretty fast.  If yours is slow, it might take around five minutes, but I'm not sure.  If you got errors when unpacking it, that makes it likely that something really is wrong....I'll have to try and download it and unpack it myself.

If your DSL connection is that slow, that could definitely lead to corrupt files.  I think I'll try splitting the archives into smaller pieces.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 27, 2010, 02:45:48 PM
One thing I didn't know which 7 zip to use. I tried several articles to discover if my PC was 32 or 64 bit but nothing they said to do showed me. So I did the 32 bit beta since my PC is over 6 years old. If that was the wrong one would I have had many errors in stead of 4 or 5?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 27, 2010, 03:48:33 PM
I'm not sure....but if your PC is that old, it probably is a 32 bit one.  I'm hoping that some more computer savy than myself will offer their opinions.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on March 27, 2010, 04:18:48 PM
Maybe it is just too big for my PC. I tried to delete it so I could replace it if you find it damaged and re upload but could not. I had to move it to a backup drive. Could that be the problem?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on March 31, 2010, 05:29:01 PM
 :thumbup: I finally had time to start playing the DCUG, i just finished playing the first two mission of the campaign

Spoiler: ShowHide
So first mission, the white martian mission. I had already played this one in the previous version, and it's very good.
The Manhunter hero file is well done, and the white martians are a real threat to him (since his best option is to enrage or hypnotise them and they keep depleting his energy bar, it's a real cat and mouse game). The cosmonaut have a tendency to die by accident (one punch on a first martian, becomes enrage and kill the cosmonaut in one punch while you fight a second martian...) and that gives you an extra reason to be cautious. It plays like an infiltration and that's the best kind there is (in my opinion of course, some prefer large battle).

The difficulty is reltively high for a first mission, but the large amount of hit point of the Manhunter and the fact that it's relativly short (so that if a cosmonaut die you didn't lose an hour of play) balance this nicely. The dialogue are well writen, but the cutscene are sometimes weird (manhunter sometimes use combat animation while talking...flying in circle is a weird way to respond to threat)

Also, the timer doesn't disappear when you've taken the cosmonaut with a leaking suit to your chamber. However the timer doesn't make you lose, it just stays there until it reaches 0 so that's not a big problem.

Also, it might be normal, but it seems there is an endless spawn point for white martian (i had killed 43 by the end of the mission, having a great score of 43/23 killed); it made things a little harder in the end (without the health canister i wouldn't have made it) but it's manageable. I don't know if its normal, but if it's a concious choice, i would tone it done a bit: instead of spawning them two by two, you should consider spawning them one by one, because i know that it's too difficult a mission for my casual-player friends and i'm afraid it will discourage them to go any further.
But overall like i said, great first mission.

Second mission, the Batman mission.

So this one gave me a little scare: when i clicked mission briefing it completely froze my computer...I had to restart and then it worked but gave me a stange error "missing MLC something-something .dll" Maybe it's due to the fact that my FFVTTR is not installed on C:, so i'm gonna assume it's my fault unless someone reports the same problem.
The mission briefing plays weirdly: batman and alfred talks above the button...but i can still click them. so i can click on "train" or "recruit" while batman speaks about the plot. I'm not sure why it did that, but i redid the mission several time to be sure it wasn't a one-time bug.

Batman's hero file needs a little speed boost. It's a solo mission, and exploring a big map with one guy who doesn't run very fast was a little boring at the begining. His other stat and powers are well-balanced so far (the fact that he relies entirely on his explosive batarang to kill the white martian is not bad, i died two times trying to put the scientist in stasis and punching him before realizing that i had a heat attack...that reminded me to always reads the characters description and weaknesses in the lower bar ^^)

Final "complaint" before i give you praise (because a good investigation mission with batman deserves it): the weapon system. I first equipped a boom tube that shots laser/teleports, and then the flamethrower next to the guard (nice idea to fight heat-sensitive martian). I really like the idea, the fact that you have to count your munition is nice too. I just have a complain abotu the graphical state of the weapon...I don't know if it wasn't implemented yet, or if it's a bug (but there's texture on it so i doubt it) but all the weapons are just a tube attached to your arm. It would be nice if we could have different model for different types of weapons.
That's nitpicking, but that's all i found to "correct" in this mission.

Another great mission overall, the investigating is fun (finding my first experimental weapon really surprised me), the fact that you're less poweful that the martian is a nice change of perspective (Manhunter could get hit while fighting, he was strong enought to take it) and the plot moves forward at the right pace (well, it's jsut the begining but still ^^)

I'll keep playing and i'll keep posting review, i'm really enoying the mod so far and if i didn't have to work i'd finish it in one continuous play

Last question: if/when you start reworking on the mod, i'd like to know if you intend to include voicepack. The minions yell, grunt and shout but the hero remains silent...And i'm pretty sure you did Timmverse voicepack and i have them...But since all the character are built-in i can't give them a voice. I wonder if the hero file could be modified to give them there closest voicepack even if you don't include them in the main install, we could get them on out own (unless pointing to an absent voice set causes problem? )
Anyway: great job  
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on March 31, 2010, 09:03:26 PM
 :mellow: Oops
Spoiler: ShowHide
I'm stuck at mission 3. I've done it five times already, but i can't seem to trigger the event. Superman gets "jimmy"'s call, i run toward him, cutscene, he changes into a soldier/martian. At this point the objective "save jimmy olsen" doesn't check or evolve in any manner. i ko the 4 soldiers, nothing happen. the sphere keeps firing beams at me but i can't destroy it. i try flying around the map to trigger another event or something but nope...am I missing the point? i there something wrong with the mission or with the player?

By the way, i redid mission 2, and i kinda broke the game...batman has ropeswinger, but can't fly inside the building (smart choice i guess). But he also has driver, wich weirdly works inside. I summoned the batwing, and its explosive missile...well, you could say it gave me the upper hand...or you could say i completely destroyed my oponents. I know you're probably not supposed to summon your vehicle inside, but isn't there something to actually prevent you from doing it?

Also, since i had the chance to play with superman (even if it wasn't for a very long time) his hero file is okay, but it could be more "fun". I like to give him some area attack like a thunderclap (think Superman TAS when he took out a fire by clapping his hands, or The New Frontier where he silences everyone when they're arguing) or sometimes a stomp when i want him to be more brutal. To nitpick, he has speeding bullet to superspeed on the ground, but doesn't have afterburner to superspeed in the sky.
 Also, i'm not sure how this works, but your kryptonian attribute give him vulnerability, i assume to kryptonite. But he also has "accidental change" wich i guess turns him into "superman k-poisonned"; so how do the two interract?
And man do i love this mod, i hadn't played FFVTTR in months, and now i just do random rumble room battle just to see wich characters i'll get to play with and against ^^
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 01, 2010, 12:30:43 AM
Wow Trelau!  That is a really excellent review.  Thanks so much for taking the time to write all of this up, man.  Things like this make me feel like all the time and effort I put into the mod was worthwhile.  I really appreciate you giving such detailed feedback, and it is really gratifying to know that you're enjoying the mod so much!  Remember, there are two other campaigns (and change) to play, in addition to the JLA one.  Let me respond to some of your observations, questions, and critiques. 
Spoiler: ShowHide

:thumbup: I finally had time to start playing the DCUG, i just finished playing the first two mission of the campaign

So first mission, the white martian mission. I had already played this one in the previous version, and it's very good.
The Manhunter hero file is well done, and the white martians are a real threat to him (since his best option is to enrage or hypnotise them and they keep depleting his energy bar, it's a real cat and mouse game). The cosmonaut have a tendency to die by accident (one punch on a first martian, becomes enrage and kill the cosmonaut in one punch while you fight a second martian...) and that gives you an extra reason to be cautious. It plays like an infiltration and that's the best kind there is (in my opinion of course, some prefer large battle).

FF lends itself to more stand-up fights, so I like an occasional sneaky mission too, which is why the Batman one is so very, VERY about being sneaky.  I've always thought of this one as a pretty good blend of sneak and fight, since, as you observed, MM is pretty tough. 

The difficulty is reltively high for a first mission, but the large amount of hit point of the Manhunter and the fact that it's relativly short (so that if a cosmonaut die you didn't lose an hour of play) balance this nicely. The dialogue are well writen, but the cutscene are sometimes weird (manhunter sometimes use combat animation while talking...flying in circle is a weird way to respond to threat)

Also, the timer doesn't disappear when you've taken the cosmonaut with a leaking suit to your chamber. However the timer doesn't make you lose, it just stays there until it reaches 0 so that's not a big problem.

Yeah, the anim thing is a result of his flying and standing anims being so different, and I could and should have fixed it....but it was honestly such a minor detail that I never got around to it.

Also, it might be normal, but it seems there is an endless spawn point for white martian (i had killed 43 by the end of the mission, having a great score of 43/23 killed); it made things a little harder in the end (without the health canister i wouldn't have made it) but it's manageable. I don't know if its normal, but if it's a concious choice, i would tone it done a bit: instead of spawning them two by two, you should consider spawning them one by one, because i know that it's too difficult a mission for my casual-player friends and i'm afraid it will discourage them to go any further.
But overall like i said, great first mission.

I'm glad you enjoyed it!  I played this mission so many darn times while testing it and during playthroughs that I can't see it objectively anymore. :wacko:  This was one of the very first things I ever created, and it is primitive enough to prove that.  The infinite spawn is a function of my modding inexperience, and it could probably use a tweak.  At the very least, I'd probably like to randomize it a bit, so there are certain delays between the bad guys respawning.

Second mission, the Batman mission.

So this one gave me a little scare: when i clicked mission briefing it completely froze my computer...I had to restart and then it worked but gave me a stange error "missing MLC something-something .dll" Maybe it's due to the fact that my FFVTTR is not installed on C:, so i'm gonna assume it's my fault unless someone reports the same problem.
The mission briefing plays weirdly: batman and alfred talks above the button...but i can still click them. so i can click on "train" or "recruit" while batman speaks about the plot. I'm not sure why it did that, but i redid the mission several time to be sure it wasn't a one-time bug.

Hmm...that is very odd.  I'm not quite sure what could be causing that...although it COULD be a function of a corrupted archive.  Perhaps something is missing.  I'm hoping that someone with more experience with the technical side of things will offer an opinion on that.  I'm guessing that the weirdness with the briefing is probably related to the same issue you were having earlier.  I've discovered that some base screen oddities can be sidestepped by saving and reloading.  I don't have a clue why. :P

Batman's hero file needs a little speed boost. It's a solo mission, and exploring a big map with one guy who doesn't run very fast was a little boring at the begining. His other stat and powers are well-balanced so far (the fact that he relies entirely on his explosive batarang to kill the white martian is not bad, i died two times trying to put the scientist in stasis and punching him before realizing that i had a heat attack...that reminded me to always reads the characters description and weaknesses in the lower bar ^^)

Ahh, mission-wise, you are almost certainly right about the speed boost, but the trouble is that he's balanced against the other three hundred or so characters in the overall terms of themod. :P  Yeah, don't forget the Limpit Mines!  They are HUGELY useful.  Also, the electrical batarang can be extremely useful for stunning the Martians.  If push comes to shove, and they get past your gadgets, you won't last long in melee.  You can hold your own for a few moments, but as soon as they land a punch, you're in trouble.  To make up for that, you can overpower a Batpunch, and you'll have a very good chance to stun your foe.  It should buy you time to get some distance.

Final "complaint" before i give you praise (because a good investigation mission with batman deserves it): the weapon system. I first equipped a boom tube that shots laser/teleports, and then the flamethrower next to the guard (nice idea to fight heat-sensitive martian). I really like the idea, the fact that you have to count your munition is nice too. I just have a complain abotu the graphical state of the weapon...I don't know if it wasn't implemented yet, or if it's a bug (but there's texture on it so i doubt it) but all the weapons are just a tube attached to your arm. It would be nice if we could have different model for different types of weapons.
That's nitpicking, but that's all i found to "correct" in this mission.

Another great mission overall, the investigating is fun (finding my first experimental weapon really surprised me), the fact that you're less poweful that the martian is a nice change of perspective (Manhunter could get hit while fighting, he was strong enought to take it) and the plot moves forward at the right pace (well, it's jsut the begining but still ^^)

Once again, I'm glad you enjoyed it.  I had a vision for this mission from the very beginning, unlike some of the others (I added in the Superman, Flash, GL, and WW missions mostly because I liked the idea of every character having an introductory mission).  When I was plotting this campaign way back when I was working that terrible job scoring tests, I had this idea of Batman being hunted through a factory by White Martians, totally outclassed, but managing to outwit them.  I like to think that, the end especially, captures that feel a bit.  The missing textures are an oversight on my part, although the custom weapons are a function of EZScript, as are their models.  When they have the right textures, they look much better. ;)  I suppose I'll have to add that to my list of things to fix eventually.

Last question: if/when you start reworking on the mod, i'd like to know if you intend to include voicepack. The minions yell, grunt and shout but the hero remains silent...And i'm pretty sure you did Timmverse voicepack and i have them...But since all the character are built-in i can't give them a voice. I wonder if the hero file could be modified to give them there closest voicepack even if you don't include them in the main install, we could get them on out own (unless pointing to an absent voice set causes problem? )
Anyway: great job 

Ahh...I should probably include a note about this in my readme.  My mod IS set up to work with my VP's, and to work with just about all the DC VP's ever made, as well as a bunch of the generic ones.  I've monkeyed with some of the voice ID's, (all of mine will plug right in, though) so it might be a little off in some places.  However, I never made a Batman pack.  The existent Bat-pack plugs right on in, though, as does my MM, Superman, WW, Aquaman, etc.  However, another thing on my list of stuff to do is to replace a lot of my JLA hero VPs with Sledgehammer and CQ's versions extracted from JLA:H.  In general they sound better than my hack-job versions.

:mellow: Oops
I'm stuck at mission 3. I've done it five times already, but i can't seem to trigger the event. Superman gets "jimmy"'s call, i run toward him, cutscene, he changes into a soldier/martian. At this point the objective "save jimmy olsen" doesn't check or evolve in any manner. i ko the 4 soldiers, nothing happen. the sphere keeps firing beams at me but i can't destroy it. i try flying around the map to trigger another event or something but nope...am I missing the point? i there something wrong with the mission or with the player?

Those orb things are switchable traps, meaning that you need to switch them off to end the encounter.  Look around the corners and on the walls of buildings.  That should do the trick.


By the way, i redid mission 2, and i kinda broke the game...batman has ropeswinger, but can't fly inside the building (smart choice i guess). But he also has driver, wich weirdly works inside. I summoned the batwing, and its explosive missile...well, you could say it gave me the upper hand...or you could say i completely destroyed my oponents. I know you're probably not supposed to summon your vehicle inside, but isn't there something to actually prevent you from doing it?

Hmm...I think I actually removed ropeswinger without changing the description of that custom attribute.  Whoops.  Ha, either way, there isn't any way to stop a player from calling the Batmobile or Batwing, except their own realization that it wouldn't make any sense to do so.  I'm leaving it up to the player's good judgment in this case.


Also, since i had the chance to play with superman (even if it wasn't for a very long time) his hero file is okay, but it could be more "fun". I like to give him some area attack like a thunderclap (think Superman TAS when he took out a fire by clapping his hands, or The New Frontier where he silences everyone when they're arguing) or sometimes a stomp when i want him to be more brutal. To nitpick, he has speeding bullet to superspeed on the ground, but doesn't have afterburner to superspeed in the sky.
 Also, i'm not sure how this works, but your kryptonian attribute give him vulnerability, i assume to kryptonite. But he also has "accidental change" wich i guess turns him into "superman k-poisonned"; so how do the two interract?
And man do i love this mod, i hadn't played FFVTTR in months, and now i just do random rumble room battle just to see wich characters i'll get to play with and against ^^

Haha, Supes is powerful enough as it is (especially in the JLA campaigns), so I think adding more area attacks would be a bad idea!  As for not giving him afterburner, I simply didn't have enough power slots, and I had to cut somewhere.  He's pretty fast in the air anyway.


SHOOT!  I just realized I lost my to-do list along with the unfinished missions...bah!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on April 02, 2010, 02:42:20 PM
So the review continues
a rather short one this time
Spoiler: ShowHide
So first, the dll bug and computer freezing bug seem to have completely disappeared. I'm gonna call it good news  :rolleyes:
About your voicepack, i think i know why they don't work with me even though i have them: i think i added a "bentonjlu" prefix or suffix to all your voicepack to find them more easily, so the herofiles probably point to the original name. I'll try renaming them to see if the heroes start speaking.
About the herofiles: it's true that i forget they're supposed to all be balanced, so too bad for batman, he'll have to walk :lol:

Now the serious stuff (like i said very short)
I finished mission 3, it was enjoyable and very superman-esque (save jimmy, defuse the bomb to save metropolis) but maybe a little too short. And since superman has his heatvision, the encounters are really easy, so it's more about not koing the citizen and destroying the building. Damage control is not my favorite kind of fight, and yet it was still fun.
Like i said i only regret it was a little short, but it's an intro mission for superman so i guess it's normal.

edit: ooh, i forgot: the switches both have "switch" and "activate" command on them.  The "activate" command makes a message appear "the switch is broken". I guess you took them from a level wich had a broken switch, and you forgot to remove it's special command before adding your own. It doesn't crash te game or the mission so it's not a real problem, it was just confusing.

Now the little technical problem, since i have it in both mission 3 and 4: i think i need the "trick" to change the max/min zoom, because in metropolis and on the moon, i can't zoom out enough to see above the building/higher rocks. So view was a little uncomfortable (i think metropolis has the daily planet, but i can see the sphere on top of the building, i pass right through it.

Intermission: the superman/scientist dialogue is interesting, and the little hint that global surveillance displease superman but that he might consider doing it for the safety of the people makes my watchtower-sense tingle (i don't know if you meant to imply that the watchtower idea was becoming a normal step to take for superman, but that's how i took it and i liked the way it was done)

Mission 4: the reason why the review is shorter :rolleyes:
I can't beat it yet. I still haven't find a way to get out of the first encounter without having to use my hero point. The second encounters with the ships is easier (since they are sensitive to energy) even though beams attack seems to miss more than half of the times when they're flying (i though it was weird, the beams just pass through them without damage, but the projectiles have impact so they work better)
Then i go on to try to sabotage, i usually hve time to defeat the ships but the two remaining white martians kill me all the time. I even tried to lure them far away from the machine so that i could try to sabotage it befor they come back, but it seems i can't trigger the "sabotage" action before killing them.
Even though i die every time, Hal seems to be pretty nice: crushing/energy beams and projectile, a stasis cage, a personal shield...I haven't been able to make the direct golem attack fonction. The animation appears, but no damage whatsoever, maybe i'll try it in rumble room to see if i was justunlucky (i though you couldn't dodge a direct attack, but i might be wrong)
Hal's a little weak, and strangely enough his projectiles attack are more effective than his beams attack even though he has light speed. But on the other hand his aim is real bad so you have the choice to hit for sure with a "weak" beam or to try your luck to put a powerful energy fist. This kind of choice is a good idea.
I still have to figure out a strategy to get the two white martian, but so far i've tried stunning them (the energy slam stuns them 3 out of 4 times) and then using energy jets or fist. The constant empty energy bar is hard to manage (i often stun myself because i give an order, get EP drained and try to launch the attack just after...). Liek i said the projectile are the only real damage dealer and the white martians dodge them almost all the time.
I've tried spamming them whith construct but they don't buy me has much time has i need to recharge my energy...
I'll keep trying, don't tell me the solution!

So about Hal: some problem with the plasma sculptor and summoner attribute
_give missile works perfectly, but give weapon, squash and block give me purple objects. if it's my fault, i'd like to know how to fix it (i'm pretty sure that it works in ffx...i'll have to retest)
_summoning: the robot is a yellow mister mechanical robot, since the "tank" which in fact is a jet is green and the other robot (i forgot its name) is green too, i assume it's another texture problem.
Si if it's my texture/plasma scupltor that are broken i'll have to look into it (like i said i hadn't played in a while, but i'm pretty sure plasma sculptor never gave me any trouble)

edit:And i thoug i'd manage to make it shorter :lol:
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 02, 2010, 03:16:43 PM
Excellent!  I'll give you some specific responses again:

Spoiler: ShowHide

So the review continues
a rather short one this time
So first, the dll bug and computer freezing bug seem to have completely disappeared. I'm gonna call it good news  :rolleyes:
About your voicepack, i think i know why they don't work with me even though i have them: i think i added a "bentonjlu" prefix or suffix to all your voicepack to find them more easily, so the herofiles probably point to the original name. I'll try renaming them to see if the heroes start speaking.
About the herofiles: it's true that i forget they're supposed to all be balanced, so too bad for batman, he'll have to walk :lol:

Glad to hear that the really bad bug doesn't seem to be rearing its head anymore.  Yeah, renaming the files would definitely cause the DCUG not to be able to find them.  Ha, yeah, the balancing process for this mod was incredibly involved. :P  Every character had to be balanced against their rogue's gallery, their compatriots, and then various OTHER heroes and villains.  It took quite a lot of testing.

Now the serious stuff (like i said very short)
I finished mission 3, it was enjoyable and very superman-esque (save jimmy, defuse the bomb to save metropolis) but maybe a little too short. And since superman has his heatvision, the encounters are really easy, so it's more about not koing the citizen and destroying the building. Damage control is not my favorite kind of fight, and yet it was still fun.
Like i said i only regret it was a little short, but it's an intro mission for superman so i guess it's normal.

Yeah, the truth of this one is that I didn't have much in the way of a compelling story to tell with Superman.  My only real "idea" was "save Jimmy."  So, you end up with something pretty short.  Also, I tried really hard to tweak various things so these guys would be a real threat to Supes, but if I had changed it anymore, they'd have eat the rest of the League for lunch.  I didn't want to bring in any of the war machines you see later (like the ones on the moon), since it wouldn't make sense, narratively.  Unfortunately, the traps didn't do nearly as much damage as I wanted, even set on extreme.

edit: ooh, i forgot: the switches both have "switch" and "activate" command on them.  The "activate" command makes a message appear "the switch is broken". I guess you took them from a level wich had a broken switch, and you forgot to remove it's special command before adding your own. It doesn't crash te game or the mission so it's not a real problem, it was just confusing.

Yeah, that's a function of EZScript.  I don't know how to change it, but since it doesn't affect anything, I'm not too worried about it.

Now the little technical problem, since i have it in both mission 3 and 4: i think i need the "trick" to change the max/min zoom, because in metropolis and on the moon, i can't zoom out enough to see above the building/higher rocks. So view was a little uncomfortable (i think metropolis has the daily planet, but i can see the sphere on top of the building, i pass right through it.

I really wanted Metropolis to have some skyscrapers, and I DO have the zoom thing activated on my rig, so I suppose I put some of those details out of sight.  You should make that little edit, as it makes things much easier, and also much nicer visually.  Yep, the planet sphere is indeed on top of the building.

Intermission: the superman/scientist dialogue is interesting, and the little hint that global surveillance displease superman but that he might consider doing it for the safety of the people makes my watchtower-sense tingle (i don't know if you meant to imply that the watchtower idea was becoming a normal step to take for superman, but that's how i took it and i liked the way it was done)

Thanks!  I was pretty happy with how this turned out.  Interesting that you picked up on a foreshadowing of a "Watchtower."  Well...you'll just have to wait and see what develops!

Mission 4: the reason why the review is shorter :rolleyes:
I can't beat it yet. I still haven't find a way to get out of the first encounter without having to use my hero point. The second encounters with the ships is easier (since they are sensitive to energy) even though beams attack seems to miss more than half of the times when they're flying (i though it was weird, the beams just pass through them without damage, but the projectiles have impact so they work better)
Then i go on to try to sabotage, i usually hve time to defeat the ships but the two remaining white martians kill me all the time. I even tried to lure them far away from the machine so that i could try to sabotage it befor they come back, but it seems i can't trigger the "sabotage" action before killing them.
Even though i die every time, Hal seems to be pretty nice: crushing/energy beams and projectile, a stasis cage, a personal shield...I haven't been able to make the direct golem attack fonction. The animation appears, but no damage whatsoever, maybe i'll try it in rumble room to see if i was justunlucky (i though you couldn't dodge a direct attack, but i might be wrong)
Hal's a little weak, and strangely enough his projectiles attack are more effective than his beams attack even though he has light speed. But on the other hand his aim is real bad so you have the choice to hit for sure with a "weak" beam or to try your luck to put a powerful energy fist. This kind of choice is a good idea.
I still have to figure out a strategy to get the two white martian, but so far i've tried stunning them (the energy slam stuns them 3 out of 4 times) and then using energy jets or fist. The constant empty energy bar is hard to manage (i often stun myself because i give an order, get EP drained and try to launch the attack just after...). Liek i said the projectile are the only real damage dealer and the white martians dodge them almost all the time.
I've tried spamming them whith construct but they don't buy me has much time has i need to recharge my energy...
I'll keep trying, don't tell me the solution!

Haha, you don't want any tips?  Alright, I won't offer any!  The fight between Hal and the Martians turned out even tougher than I had anticipated.  Those White Martians and their ability to drain energy ended up giving him no small amount of headaches.  I will say that, although the fights are usually long-ish, you should be able to get through them without getting too beat-up.  I will say that the key is to NOT get your energy drained.  You're vulnerable when that happens (because Hal's got a passive energy shield, his aura).  I'm glad you like his build.  It's one of the things that I've never really been happy with, although after I tweaked his summonings, I was much happier.  His beam attacks should also be more accurate than that.  I think they've got high accuracy.  Hmm....

So about Hal: some problem with the plasma sculptor and summoner attribute
_give missile works perfectly, but give weapon, squash and block give me purple objects. if it's my fault, i'd like to know how to fix it (i'm pretty sure that it works in ffx...i'll have to retest)
_summoning: the robot is a yellow mister mechanical robot, since the "tank" which in fact is a jet is green and the other robot (i forgot its name) is green too, i assume it's another texture problem.
Si if it's my texture/plasma scupltor that are broken i'll have to look into it (like i said i hadn't played in a while, but i'm pretty sure plasma sculptor never gave me any trouble)

edit:And i thoug i'd manage to make it shorter :lol:
It sounds like his summonings have gotten screwed up a bit.  He should summon a Mech Man, a jet, and a walker of some type (if my memory serves me).  They should all be green.  I don't know what could cause that to mess up, since the summoned stuff's profiles are set-up in FFEdit.  As for the plasma sculpture stuff, those FFX textures just aren't in certain maps,which is my fault, but they won't be of much use in this mission anyway.  

I'm glad that you enjoyed these two as well, but if you think these were hard, just wait 'till you get to Aquaman's mission. :P
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on April 02, 2010, 04:29:22 PM
I did it!
Spoiler: ShowHide
by carefully using the battleground, i managed to fight only one martian at a time, using energy slam to knockback one martian far away while i shielded myself and lauched jets or energy blast at the other. the trick to watch your energy bar so that your passive defense doesn't stop working was not a bad idea too  :rolleyes:
i still had some problem to trigger the "sabotage" command though: Hal tried to walk to the center of the object, i had to put him in flight and "above" (or north if you prefer) so that he move correctly to the trigger point. Nothing insurmontable.
Oh, and how could i forget to say that the Hal/Ring dialogue is pure gold  :lol:
I'll do a forum search to change the camera work, but for now i renamed the voicepack and they work, so that's settle too
I did a copy/paste of the ffx tecture for the plasma sculptor, i didn't retry all of the fonction but it seems to be working too.
The summonings are ok, its just that the jet is labelled as "summon a mini tank" instead of "mini jet". But for the green texture not being green, i don't know why it does that yet.

Now, for Aquaman!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 02, 2010, 05:12:45 PM
Yay!  Good work, Trelau.  That isn't an easy fight.  Yeah, the sabotage weirdness is a result of the object I used in that mission.  I'm guessing the bounding box doesn't quite fit.  Still, little graphical glitches like that were too small for me to worry about, considering I was mostly just fighting to get the thing working. :D  Thanks, I'm glad you mentioned his dialog with the ring.  I really wanted to give him a bit more personality than was seen back in the day, and there is nothing like a sidekick to give a hero straight lines!  I thought it would be fun if the ring was more than a tool, you know?  I didn't get tons of space to play with it, but I always liked the idea that Hal was a child of the space age, you know, who loved the idea of adventure in the old Buck Rogers sense.  My Hal is a big classic science fiction buff, and his ring has been infected with his tastes. ;)  That, plus a daredevil/explorer type of mindset gave me something to work with in the small amount of screen time he has.

Pay attention to what Aquaman says, he's a pretty smart fellow and he just might be giving you a clue about how NOT to get your head handed to you. ^_^
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on April 02, 2010, 09:23:24 PM
Oh, you got me there ^^
Spoiler: ShowHide
So after Aquaman's interlude (introducing a character before we actually use him...that's actually a nice way to break the monotonous "here's your character, go!") i got to play the flash mission. It might well be my favourite so far. First, Barry Allen in his civilian cloth before the fight, again, a nice touch that makes the story more believable and less boring.

Also dialogue were okay, not as "captivating" than the batman/superman ones, and not as funny as the GL one; but the flash pun made me smile. I don't know what flash says in latter mission, but i was expecting a little more "new frontier" flavor :a quick iris reference, or a short pun about how he's gonna be late again would have made the dialogue a little more light hearted.

Then, the actual mission: before playing it i was considering suggesting you to change the superman mission to have little random encounters like this to save civilians, now i see it would have been redundant.

Flash's hero file is fun and playable. his zero cost sprint is probably the most fun part of it, every time i heard/saw a shot i paused and sprinted on the other side to dodge the bullet ^^ I'm actually quite jealous because i always was unable to make good speedsters hero file, so congrats on that. Maybe (but that's just a question of flavour, it would probably make him too powerful) i'd give him a cone attack with medium knockback (because his projectile attack isn't too useful: it's usually more effective to sprint next to the vilain and do a melee or area attack). Yeah, maybe replacing his projectile with a cone, i'd probably use it more.

The encounters: fighting thugs is fun, but it can quicly become repetitive. By having us rescue the civilians at the same time (from the fires) or protecting the building from the bat/grenade guys (the school encounter) you make it funnier and challenging : if it was just a straight fight they'd have no chance, but by rushing stupidly the first time, a grenade thug killed all the civilians by targetting me ^^ again, taught me a lesson.

The last battle is probably the final touch that achieved convincing me it was my number one mission sa far: i was surprised in a good way when i realised i couldn't defeat the two scientist by just punching them, and then i remember the constant burning fire that destroyed the previous building...
I assume that's what you had in mind, so i became intangible in the middle of the burning debris while the two alien where taking damage: real smart way to make us think about how to win a fight, this sort of mechanism is what makes this mod great.
Then again, maybe you could divide their life bar by two, because once you've understand the trick, the fight has no reason to last forever (i had to do the fight twice because of a the little problem i describe below, so it might because of that that i was a little bored at the end of the second time.)

So the little technical problem: i actually saved in the middle of the last battle because i had to do something else for about an hour. When i relaunched the game and the save, the fires finished there normal lifespan (a few second i believe) but they stopped spawning...I relaunched the game and the save, but it was no use, i had to restart the mission (since i enjoyed it so much it wasn't really a problem)
I don't know if it's a common problem, or a "corrupt" savefile of some kind, but you might want to look into it.

But too conclude on this one, like i already said twice: maybe my favorite so far.


Then, the Aquaman fanboy rise!
I see you were not kidding about the difficulty
First play with the king of the seas, so quick hero file review: he's definitely well balanced and quite straightforward to play. He's a little less fun than his modern age counterparts could be (no hooks, no aquakinesis...uh, don't know if i got that right...his "magical water hand"). Now to be fair, he's from a kind i don't usually like, the ones with lots of powerful passive ability and not a wide variety of attack(or maybe tier B unlocks when he cut of his hand later in the campaign?) but i liked him anyway because of his telepathy: I really like the fact that his mental powers don't play like manhunter's ones: manhunter uses hypnose and enrage as primary means, aquaman is all panick and mental blank. I can't wait to pair this two together to see how well this mixes

Last note on the herofile: superleaper is a little buggy, if i try to "jump to" an out of range object, aquaman teleports in range and then jumps. But i believe its an ffx problem, superleaper always gave me weird results.

The mission: like i said, you weren't kidding about the difficulty ^^ the neat thing is that even though the fights are hard, you still feel powerful (throwing a tank on a bunch of soldiers sometimes have this effect). I died once trying to kill the tanks by throwing barrel at them (a soldier shot the barrel in my hands...ouch) and a second time by running to far behind enemy line without activating the turrets. Once i figured out good tactics with aquaman and found the switches to take cover behind turrets, it got easier.

It was fun. Pure and simple "THIS...IS...ATLANTIS!" fun: you stun a guy with a punch, mental blank the soldiers surrounding you with a psychic wave, scare an ennemy charging at you with a mental attack and finally take out the stunned ennemy with a powerful melee combo...Benton, you've made me an Aquaman supporter, if i can take him with me in a mission i will!

The end of the mission when the heroes finally meet is well done dialogue-wise ("hey fishman!") but the camera and character placement could be improved: maybe having all the others in a half-circle facing aquaman, because batman felt a little "compressed" between the others in the line; and i also tend to prefer camera closer to the ground during cutscene but that's more of a personal taste.
Releasing Manhunter, that scene was nice. The subtle hint that you like aquaman a little more than the other ("you're more powerful than you know") made me laugh a little, considering how long you've tried to convince everyone here that he IS that powerful. I completely buy it, and the fact that a trapped telepath calls another telpath to save him makes perfect sense.

A very good mission, and a strong argument in favor of "Aquaman is cool".

I finish with the interractive cutscene (it's not really a mission, i think you'll agree) of MM talking about the history of the martians's war. Making it in this form is certainly less boring than if it had been a long cutscene. Dialogue are good, you keep the plot simple enough for someone who doesn't know the story to understand it, and it not too long so that it becomes a lecture, so nothing to say here.

I stopped playing there, and since i'm going to see my parents this weekend for easter i won't play, so probaly no review until monday.
If the other campaigns are that well made, then this mod will have been well worth the wait. We can really feel the work behind each character, mission and dialogue. We really see that you wanted to tell a story, and from what i've seen so far you've done a very good job.
I think that we can truly thank you for what you've done, because i believe that it will join The Strangers and Liberty Bay in the club of the you-must-play-this mods of this community.

So stay tune, have a nice week-end and new feedback on monday!

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on April 06, 2010, 09:25:46 PM
Ah-ah, i'm back with new feedback!

Spoiler: ShowHide
I only played the WonderWoman mission, but i was afraid to forget all i wanted to say about it:
First: playing as Diana as an introduction to Wonderwoman? Awesome. Answer the riddle right or get pummeled? More Awesome.
So i'm really sold on the concept, but there a lot of little things that bugs me, some not that important (the absence of music..or was that a bug? or a choice?) and some more important (MAn-o-Taur needs a new hero file).
So just assume here that if i don't mention it, then it means it's perfect (the riddles, the map, Diana's dialogue, difficulty/length of the mision, etc) and let's get to the long boring list of stuff that might needs reworking:

_a few technical problems first:
  Like i said, no music, i though it was odd but maybe it was for the ambiance? or maybe a FF bug, i seem to recall sometime the music doesn't start itself in some case.
  The Medusa and Amazon Warriors counts as civilian casualties (and negative prestige) at the end of the mission.
  In the room of the third riddle (pillars, stone mask on the walls, a fire in the center...i'm pretty sure it was third riddle) i had pink boxes on the wall in the mouthes of the "stonemask". i'll try to make a screenshot.
  The medusa mesh seems to have a problem, it looks like they had a copy of themselves running at horizontal. I think it was the scoped part of their armor, so maybe there's a reset XForm problem here (i don't know the real term in Nifscope, but in max it would be that there's something wrong with X,Y,Z axis, i'm guessing the scoped part have a different orientation than the bodies)

_now that the boring stuff is done, the gameplay suggestion:
 Medusa is a fine adversary, the only "problem" is her tendency to go enrage and to attack the other ennemies, since the groups are generally small, it makes the fights sometimes too easy. So maybe one or two more by encounter to even this a little bit, or even better...

...replace the Man-o-Taurs. Or give them a "proper" herofile. They were the most boring ennemies, because all they did was Run-Roar (scares you) throw a punch or two and then re-Roar. They are physically strong and a relatively good challege for Diana, plus mythological and all. But the use of the same tactics (and the fact that Diana is not immune or even resistant to fear) means the fights got a little boring/repetitive, and that i kept waiting for Diana to calm herself before throwing one attack and being re-scared (i was glad they weren't there in the final fight). It's really my bigest beef on this mission (so you can see that you don't have much to worry about for this one too)

_Diana on the other is interesting. Two things that might be changed though: her flight gives her an enormous advantage (i killed the Man-o-Taur by flying constantly, that way if i got scared they still couldn't hit me. Yep, not really fair but they weren't playing fair either), if "princess diana" is never seen again (meaning we only play as Wonderwoman after this intro-mision) maybe you could remove it. The second thing is her tiara, which is too powerful for one reason: chained! in the final fight, it was too tempting to just keep throwing the tiara to damage sometimes up to five amazons in one shot. Otherwise the idea (low piercing damage + moderate stun) is a good choice of attack for WW (and we don't have the lasso yet, so points for variety too)

_The final fight: the best part, but could be more fun (you may realize it's my motto in all my reviews of your missions: how could i make this cool mission even more fun to play? :) )
So there's a bunch of amazons, and for some reason two medusa. I don't know if they were meant to be here (i had a little bug with the last riddle, so...) but if they are here on purpose they probably shouldn't: it an all-amazonian smashfest!
And on this note, the only thing that could make this fight better: make the amazonians stronger, but make them fight each other in addition to you. That would be an epic battle royal between all the pretendant to the WonderWoman title. But i wonder if it might not be difficult to code or something...Well if it can be done it would be cool

_another one from the top of my mind,  :ph34r: i though of this while writing the paragraph above: the map is nice, i don't remember if its one of Pan's map taken as a base or a completely original one, but i really like the labyrinth design and the progression from one section to another. but what about traps? That would be a nice addition, you already have branching corridors that goes to the same room, what if you trapped the shortest route? (wall that shoots a spear at you when you are in range, prosimity mine with goo or all other stuff like that) especialy if you remove diana's flight, to force the player to think a little and take the longest but safest way (instead of running/fying in straight line to the next wraith)

There, i think i remembered everything i had in mind. I re-read myself and I think i made this critic look more negative than what i actually think of this mission, because like i said the concept of playing a young diana, having to answer riddle in a labyrinth, fighting amazonians in the end for the Wonderwoman title (definitely my favourite part of this mission), all that is really cool, exciting and new. Once again, it's a mission that is different from what we're used to see, and that's definitely one of your strenght.
 Still, to be fair, that's probably the mission that needs the most work if you intend to do a "final" release (the technical oddities; and please, please, the Man-o-Taurs  :rolleyes: )
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 08, 2010, 06:08:25 AM
Awesome, some more reviews!  Ha, thanks Trelau:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Oh, you got me there ^^
So after Aquaman's interlude (introducing a character before we actually use him...that's actually a nice way to break the monotonous "here's your character, go!") i got to play the flash mission. It might well be my favourite so far. First, Barry Allen in his civilian cloth before the fight, again, a nice touch that makes the story more believable and less boring.

Also dialogue were okay, not as "captivating" than the batman/superman ones, and not as funny as the GL one; but the flash pun made me smile. I don't know what flash says in latter mission, but i was expecting a little more "new frontier" flavor :a quick iris reference, or a short pun about how he's gonna be late again would have made the dialogue a little more light hearted.

Thanks, the organization of Aquaman showing up there is at least partially accidental.  Ha, I juggled these middle missions around a lot before I got an order I liked.  Still, I enjoyed being able to get a quick look into Atlantis.  Yeah, I wanted to do more with the heroes' secret identities, but didn't really have the space.  As for the dialog, I didn't have quite as clear an idea of who Barry Allen was as I did for a lot of the other characters.  He develops a bit later on, but he never gets as much screen time as I might have liked.

Then, the actual mission: before playing it i was considering suggesting you to change the superman mission to have little random encounters like this to save civilians, now i see it would have been redundant.

Flash's hero file is fun and playable. his zero cost sprint is probably the most fun part of it, every time i heard/saw a shot i paused and sprinted on the other side to dodge the bullet ^^ I'm actually quite jealous because i always was unable to make good speedsters hero file, so congrats on that. Maybe (but that's just a question of flavour, it would probably make him too powerful) i'd give him a cone attack with medium knockback (because his projectile attack isn't too useful: it's usually more effective to sprint next to the vilain and do a melee or area attack). Yeah, maybe replacing his projectile with a cone, i'd probably use it more.

I'm glad you like his build!  I had a REALLY hard time balancing Flash and Bats to go with the rest of the League.  I wanted them to fill different roles than the other heroes, be true to the comics, but still be able to pull their weight.  I'm not entirely sure how well I accomplished that, but I like to think that Flash is still useful later on, especially in missions where speed is a factor.  I've considered the cone, but I did want to limit him pretty well in terms of ranged powers.

The encounters: fighting thugs is fun, but it can quicly become repetitive. By having us rescue the civilians at the same time (from the fires) or protecting the building from the bat/grenade guys (the school encounter) you make it funnier and challenging : if it was just a straight fight they'd have no chance, but by rushing stupidly the first time, a grenade thug killed all the civilians by targetting me ^^ again, taught me a lesson.

Thanks!  I have a hard time designing missions that are interesting, playability wise, so I'm really glad that you found this one so engaging!

The last battle is probably the final touch that achieved convincing me it was my number one mission sa far: i was surprised in a good way when i realised i couldn't defeat the two scientist by just punching them, and then i remember the constant burning fire that destroyed the previous building...
I assume that's what you had in mind, so i became intangible in the middle of the burning debris while the two alien where taking damage: real smart way to make us think about how to win a fight, this sort of mechanism is what makes this mod great.
Then again, maybe you could divide their life bar by two, because once you've understand the trick, the fight has no reason to last forever (i had to do the fight twice because of a the little problem i describe below, so it might because of that that i was a little bored at the end of the second time.)

I'm very surprised that this Flash mission was your number one, as it was definitely one of my 'thrown together' missions.  The only real idea I had was for Flash to have to race between different fires and such.  Ha, your solution is actually really fantastic, but it is also completely new to me!  I never thought of that.  Instead, I always did my best to keep the Warlord alive, so that he could deal some damage and distract the "scientists."  Then, I would get one of them to aim at me, sprint behind his buddy, and laugh as he was hit by friendly fire.  That plus some overpowered vibration punches (I forget what they are named) along with a bit of cat and mouse allowed me to drop them.  It was always meant to be a fairly tough fight, though.  I really like your solution, and I wish I had thought of it!

So the little technical problem: i actually saved in the middle of the last battle because i had to do something else for about an hour. When i relaunched the game and the save, the fires finished there normal lifespan (a few second i believe) but they stopped spawning...I relaunched the game and the save, but it was no use, i had to restart the mission (since i enjoyed it so much it wasn't really a problem)
I don't know if it's a common problem, or a "corrupt" savefile of some kind, but you might want to look into it.

But too conclude on this one, like i already said twice: maybe my favorite so far.

That would be an issue with EZScript, but I'm not sure what to do about it.


Then, the Aquaman fanboy rise!
I see you were not kidding about the difficulty
First play with the king of the seas, so quick hero file review: he's definitely well balanced and quite straightforward to play. He's a little less fun than his modern age counterparts could be (no hooks, no aquakinesis...uh, don't know if i got that right...his "magical water hand"). Now to be fair, he's from a kind i don't usually like, the ones with lots of powerful passive ability and not a wide variety of attack(or maybe tier B unlocks when he cut of his hand later in the campaign?) but i liked him anyway because of his telepathy: I really like the fact that his mental powers don't play like manhunter's ones: manhunter uses hypnose and enrage as primary means, aquaman is all panick and mental blank. I can't wait to pair this two together to see how well this mixes

Last note on the herofile: superleaper is a little buggy, if i try to "jump to" an out of range object, aquaman teleports in range and then jumps. But i believe its an ffx problem, superleaper always gave me weird results.

I'm really glad you like Arthur.  I worked very hard on his build, and I've never been entirely happy with it.  The panic for his mental attack never set quite right for me, but I can see that, in terms of balance, it actually works out alright.  Superleaper is, I'm afraid, a function of FFX, and I've got no control over any weirdness there.  I have the same issues sometimes, but I'm not sure that anything can be done about it.

The mission: like i said, you weren't kidding about the difficulty ^^ the neat thing is that even though the fights are hard, you still feel powerful (throwing a tank on a bunch of soldiers sometimes have this effect). I died once trying to kill the tanks by throwing barrel at them (a soldier shot the barrel in my hands...ouch) and a second time by running to far behind enemy line without activating the turrets. Once i figured out good tactics with aquaman and found the switches to take cover behind turrets, it got easier.

It was fun. Pure and simple "THIS...IS...ATLANTIS!" fun: you stun a guy with a punch, mental blank the soldiers surrounding you with a psychic wave, scare an ennemy charging at you with a mental attack and finally take out the stunned ennemy with a powerful melee combo...Benton, you've made me an Aquaman supporter, if i can take him with me in a mission i will!

Woo-hoo!  My mission is complete! :D  I definitely wanted to make a mission that you'd really have to think your way through, and it sounds like I did a decent job with it.  I'm glad that you enjoyed it so much, and even more, I'm glad that you didn't give up because of the difficulty!

The end of the mission when the heroes finally meet is well done dialogue-wise ("hey fishman!") but the camera and character placement could be improved: maybe having all the others in a half-circle facing aquaman, because batman felt a little "compressed" between the others in the line; and i also tend to prefer camera closer to the ground during cutscene but that's more of a personal taste.
Releasing Manhunter, that scene was nice. The subtle hint that you like aquaman a little more than the other ("you're more powerful than you know") made me laugh a little, considering how long you've tried to convince everyone here that he IS that powerful. I completely buy it, and the fact that a trapped telepath calls another telpath to save him makes perfect sense.

A very good mission, and a strong argument in favor of "Aquaman is cool".

Yeah, the camera placement isn't something I can control too closely with EZScript, but I could probably tweak Batman's positioning easily enough.  I noticed him being a bit scrunched too, but it would require me placing more markers to fix it. :P

Well, see, this whole thing just made perfect sense to me.  In the JLU pilot Martian Manhunter manages to contact Superman, despite being imprisoned.  Why did he reach out to Superman?  Why was Superman more receptive?  It never really made a whole lot of sense to me.  However, if Aquaman had been on the team (like he should have), that would have made some sense.  After all, not only is he a telepath, he's also got what is, undoubtedly, one of the most powerful minds on the planet.  If he can control hundreds of thousands of marine animals miles upon miles away, then he has to have a mind as far beyond, say, Superman's, as Superman is beyond mere mortals in terms of muscles.  So, if MM is sending out a telepathic S.O.S., who might be able to detect it?  The only one that makes sense is...Aquaman! :)  I'm glad to hear that this scene "worked" for you, and that you bought into my premise.

I finish with the interractive cutscene (it's not really a mission, i think you'll agree) of MM talking about the history of the martians's war. Making it in this form is certainly less boring than if it had been a long cutscene. Dialogue are good, you keep the plot simple enough for someone who doesn't know the story to understand it, and it not too long so that it becomes a lecture, so nothing to say here.

Yeah, I had this massive speech (or perhaps 'lecture' would be the right word for it) by MM in the middle of the campaign.  Prev. or someone once said to me, "no-one is going to read that," and I imagine he was probably right.  One of the things I really wanted to do when I updated the mod was to make this exposition scene more interesting.  I'm glad that it at least worked in part.

I stopped playing there, and since i'm going to see my parents this weekend for easter i won't play, so probaly no review until monday.
If the other campaigns are that well made, then this mod will have been well worth the wait. We can really feel the work behind each character, mission and dialogue. We really see that you wanted to tell a story, and from what i've seen so far you've done a very good job.
I think that we can truly thank you for what you've done, because i believe that it will join The Strangers and Liberty Bay in the club of the you-must-play-this mods of this community.

So stay tune, have a nice week-end and new feedback on monday!


Man, to be ranked alongside The Strangers, one of the biggest reasons I ever tried my hands at modding in the first place, not to mention Liberty Bay itself...that is high praise indeed.  I don't think I'll ever consider my poor efforts in the same category as those masterpieces.


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 08, 2010, 06:08:55 AM
And more:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Ah-ah, i'm back with new feedback!

I only played the WonderWoman mission, but i was afraid to forget all i wanted to say about it:
First: playing as Diana as an introduction to Wonderwoman? Awesome. Answer the riddle right or get pummeled? More Awesome.
So i'm really sold on the concept, but there a lot of little things that bugs me, some not that important (the absence of music..or was that a bug? or a choice?) and some more important (MAn-o-Taur needs a new hero file).
So just assume here that if i don't mention it, then it means it's perfect (the riddles, the map, Diana's dialogue, difficulty/length of the mision, etc) and let's get to the long boring list of stuff that might needs reworking:

I REALLY wanted to experiment with the Simple Choice plug-in, and I have to admit that Imlasof did all the hard work, and I based the riddles off of a great mission he created.  Still, I was really happy with the way it turned out (with a few minor exceptions).  I definitely enjoyed the change of pace this mission gave me, and I had a blast looking the riddles up.  What did you think about their difficulty?  Did the other choices seem plausible?  You thought Diana sounded right?  She was another one that I was never terribly comfortable writing, so I'm glad to hear that.

_a few technical problems first:
  Like i said, no music, i though it was odd but maybe it was for the ambiance? or maybe a FF bug, i seem to recall sometime the music doesn't start itself in some case.
  The Medusa and Amazon Warriors counts as civilian casualties (and negative prestige) at the end of the mission.
  In the room of the third riddle (pillars, stone mask on the walls, a fire in the center...i'm pretty sure it was third riddle) i had pink boxes on the wall in the mouthes of the "stonemask". i'll try to make a screenshot.
  The medusa mesh seems to have a problem, it looks like they had a copy of themselves running at horizontal. I think it was the scoped part of their armor, so maybe there's a reset XForm problem here (i don't know the real term in Nifscope, but in max it would be that there's something wrong with X,Y,Z axis, i'm guessing the scoped part have a different orientation than the bodies)

I had music in the other missions?  If so, I've completely forgotten about that.  Whoops.  The Amazon Warriors counting against you would be because I set them up as cops or heroes, just in case you wanted to use them in the danger room or something else.  The Medusas counting that way are a mistake.  I'm not sure what the missing texture is.  I never saw it.  The weird graphical thing you describe could be the ghosting problem.  Try turning off all shadows, and you might not see it anymore.  Eventually I may get around to fixing that for all of the meshes included, but it would be a huge project to fix everything.

_now that the boring stuff is done, the gameplay suggestion:
 Medusa is a fine adversary, the only "problem" is her tendency to go enrage and to attack the other ennemies, since the groups are generally small, it makes the fights sometimes too easy. So maybe one or two more by encounter to even this a little bit, or even better...

...replace the Man-o-Taurs. Or give them a "proper" herofile. They were the most boring ennemies, because all they did was Run-Roar (scares you) throw a punch or two and then re-Roar. They are physically strong and a relatively good challege for Diana, plus mythological and all. But the use of the same tactics (and the fact that Diana is not immune or even resistant to fear) means the fights got a little boring/repetitive, and that i kept waiting for Diana to calm herself before throwing one attack and being re-scared (i was glad they weren't there in the final fight). It's really my bigest beef on this mission (so you can see that you don't have much to worry about for this one too)

Hehe, using the Man-O-Taurs is purely a function of my being in burn-out mode when I created that mission.  I didn't want to do any extra work.  I could tweak them eventually whenever I get around to updating the mod.

_Diana on the other is interesting. Two things that might be changed though: her flight gives her an enormous advantage (i killed the Man-o-Taur by flying constantly, that way if i got scared they still couldn't hit me. Yep, not really fair but they weren't playing fair either), if "princess diana" is never seen again (meaning we only play as Wonderwoman after this intro-mision) maybe you could remove it. The second thing is her tiara, which is too powerful for one reason: chained! in the final fight, it was too tempting to just keep throwing the tiara to damage sometimes up to five amazons in one shot. Otherwise the idea (low piercing damage + moderate stun) is a good choice of attack for WW (and we don't have the lasso yet, so points for variety too)

I could lose her flying.  You really only use her in this one mission.  Also, the tiara could lose chained, I suppose, although I sorta' liked the way it worked.  I tend to think that the low damage makes up for the chaining.

_The final fight: the best part, but could be more fun (you may realize it's my motto in all my reviews of your missions: how could i make this cool mission even more fun to play? :) )
So there's a bunch of amazons, and for some reason two medusa. I don't know if they were meant to be here (i had a little bug with the last riddle, so...) but if they are here on purpose they probably shouldn't: it an all-amazonian smashfest!
And on this note, the only thing that could make this fight better: make the amazonians stronger, but make them fight each other in addition to you. That would be an epic battle royal between all the pretendant to the WonderWoman title. But i wonder if it might not be difficult to code or something...Well if it can be done it would be cool

Yeah, the Medusas probably just wandered in from another part.  Go figure.  I could create two different groups of Amazons that fight each other, but I couldn't make it a free for all.  Still, I could probably do that, but I rather think it would be too easy.

_another one from the top of my mind,  :ph34r: i though of this while writing the paragraph above: the map is nice, i don't remember if its one of Pan's map taken as a base or a completely original one, but i really like the labyrinth design and the progression from one section to another. but what about traps? That would be a nice addition, you already have branching corridors that goes to the same room, what if you trapped the shortest route? (wall that shoots a spear at you when you are in range, prosimity mine with goo or all other stuff like that) especialy if you remove diana's flight, to force the player to think a little and take the longest but safest way (instead of running/fying in straight line to the next wraith)

Yep, it's the interior of Pan's Island, with very few tweaks by me.  I COULD do traps, but only switch-able traps work in EZScript.  I may get around to that one day, but there are already several encounters running at the same time.  I'm not sure if more would be a good idea...although I suppose I could spawn them progressively.  Either way, it would take a lot of work that I'm not likely to do any time soon. :P

There, i think i remembered everything i had in mind. I re-read myself and I think i made this critic look more negative than what i actually think of this mission, because like i said the concept of playing a young diana, having to answer riddle in a labyrinth, fighting amazonians in the end for the Wonderwoman title (definitely my favourite part of this mission), all that is really cool, exciting and new. Once again, it's a mission that is different from what we're used to see, and that's definitely one of your strenght.
 Still, to be fair, that's probably the mission that needs the most work if you intend to do a "final" release (the technical oddities; and please, please, the Man-o-Taurs  :rolleyes: )

Ha, what did you REALLY think about the Man-o-Taurs!  Well, this was, I think, just about the last mission for this storyarc that I wrote, so it didn't get tested as thoroughly as some of the others.  Also, I'm glad you liked it so much, since the only real idea I had for it was to have a riddle mission. ^_^




Let me know what you think when you get to the Metropolis mission!

Is anyone else playing the DCUG?  Has anyone tried out the Mystery in Space campaign?  Has anyone tried out any of the unfinished campaigns? 
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on April 09, 2010, 04:20:33 PM
 :o
Spoiler: ShowHide
i've just finished the Metropolis mission. I don't have time to write a full-fledge review right now but...Wow. New favourite mission, obviously.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: bengal on April 10, 2010, 03:11:14 AM
I've been trying to download the DCUG all night.

It downloads alright, or seems to, and through 7Zip it creates the zip file, but there on I'm having trouble.

The first zip file, DCUG.zip.001, says that the zip file is empty; all following zips say to enter the last disk for the multi-disk install. 

I was only able to get 7zip to even create the subsequent zips by renaming all DCUG.zip.002 and on files to DCUG2.zip.001 .

What am I doing wrong, and how can I do it right?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 10, 2010, 04:38:25 AM
I've been trying to download the DCUG all night.

It downloads alright, or seems to, and through 7Zip it creates the zip file, but there on I'm having trouble.

The first zip file, DCUG.zip.001, says that the zip file is empty; all following zips say to enter the last disk for the multi-disk install. 

I was only able to get 7zip to even create the subsequent zips by renaming all DCUG.zip.002 and on files to DCUG2.zip.001 .

What am I doing wrong, and how can I do it right?

Hmm...if I understand you correctly, you've merged them improperly.  You should select all of the downloaded parts, named just as they were, and right click, select 7-Zip, then "extract files."  Extract them to DCUG.zip, which should be the default suggestion, and you're set.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 10, 2010, 05:28:42 PM
And more:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Ah-ah, i'm back with new feedback!

I only played the WonderWoman mission, but i was afraid to forget all i wanted to say about it:
First: playing as Diana as an introduction to Wonderwoman? Awesome. Answer the riddle right or get pummeled? More Awesome.
So i'm really sold on the concept, but there a lot of little things that bugs me, some not that important (the absence of music..or was that a bug? or a choice?) and some more important (MAn-o-Taur needs a new hero file).
So just assume here that if i don't mention it, then it means it's perfect (the riddles, the map, Diana's dialogue, difficulty/length of the mision, etc) and let's get to the long boring list of stuff that might needs reworking:

I REALLY wanted to experiment with the Simple Choice plug-in, and I have to admit that Imlasof did all the hard work, and I based the riddles off of a great mission he created.  Still, I was really happy with the way it turned out (with a few minor exceptions).  I definitely enjoyed the change of pace this mission gave me, and I had a blast looking the riddles up.  What did you think about their difficulty?  Did the other choices seem plausible?  You thought Diana sounded right?  She was another one that I was never terribly comfortable writing, so I'm glad to hear that.

_a few technical problems first:
  Like i said, no music, i though it was odd but maybe it was for the ambiance? or maybe a FF bug, i seem to recall sometime the music doesn't start itself in some case.
  The Medusa and Amazon Warriors counts as civilian casualties (and negative prestige) at the end of the mission.
  In the room of the third riddle (pillars, stone mask on the walls, a fire in the center...i'm pretty sure it was third riddle) i had pink boxes on the wall in the mouthes of the "stonemask". i'll try to make a screenshot.
  The medusa mesh seems to have a problem, it looks like they had a copy of themselves running at horizontal. I think it was the scoped part of their armor, so maybe there's a reset XForm problem here (i don't know the real term in Nifscope, but in max it would be that there's something wrong with X,Y,Z axis, i'm guessing the scoped part have a different orientation than the bodies)

I had music in the other missions?  If so, I've completely forgotten about that.  Whoops.  The Amazon Warriors counting against you would be because I set them up as cops or heroes, just in case you wanted to use them in the danger room or something else.  The Medusas counting that way are a mistake.  I'm not sure what the missing texture is.  I never saw it.  The weird graphical thing you describe could be the ghosting problem.  Try turning off all shadows, and you might not see it anymore.  Eventually I may get around to fixing that for all of the meshes included, but it would be a huge project to fix everything.

_now that the boring stuff is done, the gameplay suggestion:
 Medusa is a fine adversary, the only "problem" is her tendency to go enrage and to attack the other ennemies, since the groups are generally small, it makes the fights sometimes too easy. So maybe one or two more by encounter to even this a little bit, or even better...

...replace the Man-o-Taurs. Or give them a "proper" herofile. They were the most boring ennemies, because all they did was Run-Roar (scares you) throw a punch or two and then re-Roar. They are physically strong and a relatively good challege for Diana, plus mythological and all. But the use of the same tactics (and the fact that Diana is not immune or even resistant to fear) means the fights got a little boring/repetitive, and that i kept waiting for Diana to calm herself before throwing one attack and being re-scared (i was glad they weren't there in the final fight). It's really my bigest beef on this mission (so you can see that you don't have much to worry about for this one too)

Hehe, using the Man-O-Taurs is purely a function of my being in burn-out mode when I created that mission.  I didn't want to do any extra work.  I could tweak them eventually whenever I get around to updating the mod.

_Diana on the other is interesting. Two things that might be changed though: her flight gives her an enormous advantage (i killed the Man-o-Taur by flying constantly, that way if i got scared they still couldn't hit me. Yep, not really fair but they weren't playing fair either), if "princess diana" is never seen again (meaning we only play as Wonderwoman after this intro-mision) maybe you could remove it. The second thing is her tiara, which is too powerful for one reason: chained! in the final fight, it was too tempting to just keep throwing the tiara to damage sometimes up to five amazons in one shot. Otherwise the idea (low piercing damage + moderate stun) is a good choice of attack for WW (and we don't have the lasso yet, so points for variety too)

I could lose her flying.  You really only use her in this one mission.  Also, the tiara could lose chained, I suppose, although I sorta' liked the way it worked.  I tend to think that the low damage makes up for the chaining.

_The final fight: the best part, but could be more fun (you may realize it's my motto in all my reviews of your missions: how could i make this cool mission even more fun to play? :) )
So there's a bunch of amazons, and for some reason two medusa. I don't know if they were meant to be here (i had a little bug with the last riddle, so...) but if they are here on purpose they probably shouldn't: it an all-amazonian smashfest!
And on this note, the only thing that could make this fight better: make the amazonians stronger, but make them fight each other in addition to you. That would be an epic battle royal between all the pretendant to the WonderWoman title. But i wonder if it might not be difficult to code or something...Well if it can be done it would be cool

Yeah, the Medusas probably just wandered in from another part.  Go figure.  I could create two different groups of Amazons that fight each other, but I couldn't make it a free for all.  Still, I could probably do that, but I rather think it would be too easy.

_another one from the top of my mind,  :ph34r: i though of this while writing the paragraph above: the map is nice, i don't remember if its one of Pan's map taken as a base or a completely original one, but i really like the labyrinth design and the progression from one section to another. but what about traps? That would be a nice addition, you already have branching corridors that goes to the same room, what if you trapped the shortest route? (wall that shoots a spear at you when you are in range, prosimity mine with goo or all other stuff like that) especialy if you remove diana's flight, to force the player to think a little and take the longest but safest way (instead of running/fying in straight line to the next wraith)

Yep, it's the interior of Pan's Island, with very few tweaks by me.  I COULD do traps, but only switch-able traps work in EZScript.  I may get around to that one day, but there are already several encounters running at the same time.  I'm not sure if more would be a good idea...although I suppose I could spawn them progressively.  Either way, it would take a lot of work that I'm not likely to do any time soon. :P

There, i think i remembered everything i had in mind. I re-read myself and I think i made this critic look more negative than what i actually think of this mission, because like i said the concept of playing a young diana, having to answer riddle in a labyrinth, fighting amazonians in the end for the Wonderwoman title (definitely my favourite part of this mission), all that is really cool, exciting and new. Once again, it's a mission that is different from what we're used to see, and that's definitely one of your strenght.
 Still, to be fair, that's probably the mission that needs the most work if you intend to do a "final" release (the technical oddities; and please, please, the Man-o-Taurs  :rolleyes: )

Ha, what did you REALLY think about the Man-o-Taurs!  Well, this was, I think, just about the last mission for this storyarc that I wrote, so it didn't get tested as thoroughly as some of the others.  Also, I'm glad you liked it so much, since the only real idea I had for it was to have a riddle mission. ^_^




Let me know what you think when you get to the Metropolis mission!

Is anyone else playing the DCUG?  Has anyone tried out the Mystery in Space campaign?  Has anyone tried out any of the unfinished campaigns? 

I finally got this working today. I left my PC for about 20 minutes and the mod had finally booted up.(it had not in 5 minutes of waiting) I jsut completed the first mission and really enjoyed it especially MM's stretch punch.

How do we try out the other campaigns? All I saw was the normal start campaign button which goes to the JLA one.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 10, 2010, 05:48:01 PM
Hey EoB, I'm glad it finally started for you...although it certainly took its time, didn't it!  Ha, well, the best I can figure is that it just runs REALLY slow upon boot-up on older systems.  Did it run alright once you actually got it started?  As for the other campaigns, if you check your readme, you'll see some instructions on how to play them, but I'll summarize here.  If you open your DCUG directory, you'll find a folder that says "campaigns."  Within this folder is a copy of every campaign file that shipped with the DCUG.  Simply chose the one that you'd like, and copy it into the main DCUG directory.  Then, find the campdef.dat file which is already there, and rename or delete it (there should be a copy of the JLA file still in the campaign folder, so deleting it won't do any harm), and rename the one you want to campdef.  Now when you start your game, that will be the campaign that you access.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 10, 2010, 09:09:14 PM
It seems to be working ok except in mission 2

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I finally completed the final survive until Superman objective but the mission would not end. SO I had to use the mission win cheat to finish.




I will attempt the other camps after I finish the JLA. Thanks!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 10, 2010, 09:18:07 PM
It seems to be working ok except in mission 2

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I finally completed the final survive until Superman objective but the mission would not end. SO I had to use the mission win cheat to finish.




I will attempt the other camps after I finish the JLA. Thanks!

Hmm....can you give me some more details, EoH?

Spoiler: ShowHide
So, you survive until Supes arrives, right?  You actually see the cutscene where he shows up?  Did you see the CS where they figure out the place is rigged to blow?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 10, 2010, 09:44:44 PM
It seems to be working ok except in mission 2

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I finally completed the final survive until Superman objective but the mission would not end. SO I had to use the mission win cheat to finish.




I will attempt the other camps after I finish the JLA. Thanks!

Hmm....can you give me some more details, EoH?

Spoiler: ShowHide
So, you survive until Supes arrives, right?  You actually see the cutscene where he shows up?  Did you see the CS where they figure out the place is rigged to blow?


Spoiler: ShowHide
It said that objective was completed then nothing happened for quite some time. Since I had already had to reload about 20 times to finish the last 3 objectives I just gave up.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 10, 2010, 09:47:59 PM
It seems to be working ok except in mission 2

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I finally completed the final survive until Superman objective but the mission would not end. SO I had to use the mission win cheat to finish.




I will attempt the other camps after I finish the JLA. Thanks!

Hmm....can you give me some more details, EoH?

Spoiler: ShowHide
So, you survive until Supes arrives, right?  You actually see the cutscene where he shows up?  Did you see the CS where they figure out the place is rigged to blow?


Spoiler: ShowHide
It said that objective was completed then nothing happened for quite some time. Since I had already had to reload about 20 times to finish the last 3 objectives I just gave up.



Hmm...it's possible that something is wrong with the final cs.  Could you post your script.log here:
http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49032.msg707189#new

Heh, yeah, that's a tough mission, huh!  Don't neglect your limpet mines, as they are probably your most effective tool against those bad guys!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 10, 2010, 09:54:41 PM
It seems to be working ok except in mission 2

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I finally completed the final survive until Superman objective but the mission would not end. SO I had to use the mission win cheat to finish.




I will attempt the other camps after I finish the JLA. Thanks!

Hmm....can you give me some more details, EoH?

Spoiler: ShowHide
So, you survive until Supes arrives, right?  You actually see the cutscene where he shows up?  Did you see the CS where they figure out the place is rigged to blow?


Spoiler: ShowHide
It said that objective was completed then nothing happened for quite some time. Since I had already had to reload about 20 times to finish the last 3 objectives I just gave up.



Hmm...it's possible that something is wrong with the final cs.  Could you post your script.log here:
http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49032.msg707189#new

Heh, yeah, that's a tough mission, huh!  Don't neglect your limpet mines, as they are probably your most effective tool against those bad guys!

Where do I find the script log?

And I did use the exploding batarangs. The problem was the enemy would panic and fly around too fast for me to hit.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 10, 2010, 10:12:32 PM
Where do I find the script log?

And I did use the exploding batarangs. The problem was the enemy would panic and fly around too fast for me to hit.

Your script.log is in your main FF directory.  You get to choose things for your utility belt at the beginning of the mission, make sure to pick the mines and plant them in strategic places.  Doorways are good for that.  Then lure the bad guys over them and trigger the mine...BOOM!  When using your exploding Batarangs, make sure to aim at the floor, not the bad guy himself.  That way, you'll get them in the blast, even if the enemy dodges.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 11, 2010, 12:22:22 AM
Where do I find the script log?

And I did use the exploding batarangs. The problem was the enemy would panic and fly around too fast for me to hit.

Your script.log is in your main FF directory.  You get to choose things for your utility belt at the beginning of the mission, make sure to pick the mines and plant them in strategic places.  Doorways are good for that.  Then lure the bad guys over them and trigger the mine...BOOM!  When using your exploding Batarangs, make sure to aim at the floor, not the bad guy himself.  That way, you'll get them in the blast, even if the enemy dodges.

I posted the script.text which is all I see in the main FFVTTR folder.

I didn't see any option to choose something for the belt. I did throw at the floor which is how I got most of the bad guys. However the last few waves flew around so fast it was almost impossible to hit them. I would throw well in front of where one was but they would be past it and out of the blast zone before it exploded. Unless of course I threw it so close it would get me too. Which I had to do a lot.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 11, 2010, 05:31:52 AM
Where do I find the script log?

And I did use the exploding batarangs. The problem was the enemy would panic and fly around too fast for me to hit.

Your script.log is in your main FF directory.  You get to choose things for your utility belt at the beginning of the mission, make sure to pick the mines and plant them in strategic places.  Doorways are good for that.  Then lure the bad guys over them and trigger the mine...BOOM!  When using your exploding Batarangs, make sure to aim at the floor, not the bad guy himself.  That way, you'll get them in the blast, even if the enemy dodges.

I posted the script.text which is all I see in the main FFVTTR folder.

I didn't see any option to choose something for the belt. I did throw at the floor which is how I got most of the bad guys. However the last few waves flew around so fast it was almost impossible to hit them. I would throw well in front of where one was but they would be past it and out of the blast zone before it exploded. Unless of course I threw it so close it would get me too. Which I had to do a lot.

Hmm, when you spawned, didn't you see several objects around Batman?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 11, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
Where do I find the script log?

And I did use the exploding batarangs. The problem was the enemy would panic and fly around too fast for me to hit.

Your script.log is in your main FF directory.  You get to choose things for your utility belt at the beginning of the mission, make sure to pick the mines and plant them in strategic places.  Doorways are good for that.  Then lure the bad guys over them and trigger the mine...BOOM!  When using your exploding Batarangs, make sure to aim at the floor, not the bad guy himself.  That way, you'll get them in the blast, even if the enemy dodges.

I posted the script.text which is all I see in the main FFVTTR folder.

I didn't see any option to choose something for the belt. I did throw at the floor which is how I got most of the bad guys. However the last few waves flew around so fast it was almost impossible to hit them. I would throw well in front of where one was but they would be past it and out of the blast zone before it exploded. Unless of course I threw it so close it would get me too. Which I had to do a lot.

Hmm, when you spawned, didn't you see several objects around Batman?

No but I wasn't looking for them so maybe they were there but anyway:

Spoiler: ShowHide

I played the next 3 missions. The GL one was my favorite. There was nice funnydialog in the first cut scene. I didn't expect the ring to talk. I liked the power ideas you put in a lot. The Flash mission was a lot of fun and again I like what you did with his powers. The white martians were very tough for Flash to take down but I won with about 5-10 hit points and no hero points left. :thumbup: The Superman mission was good too, I just liked the GL and Flash ones better.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 11, 2010, 02:34:25 PM
No but I wasn't looking for them so maybe they were there but anyway:

Spoiler: ShowHide

I played the next 3 missions. The GL one was my favorite. There was nice funnydialog in the first cut scene. I didn't expect the ring to talk. I liked the power ideas you put in a lot. The Flash mission was a lot of fun and again I like what you did with his powers. The white martians were very tough for Flash to take down but I won with about 5-10 hit points and no hero points left. :thumbup: The Superman mission was good too, I just liked the GL and Flash ones better.



Ahh, well if you ever replay that mission, watch out for the things that spawn around Batman in the very beginning.  You can choose what goes in his "utility belt," with everything from a medical kit to handcuffs, and the limpet mines that I mentioned are one of the choices.  The mission is significantly harder without the medical kit and limpet mines.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Awesome, I'm really glad that you liked the next missions, and even more so that they didn't give you any weird bugs. :D  Yeah, I really enjoyed writing the GL mission as well, and, as I told Trelau, I felt like Hal needed someone to play off of, so I made his ring into a sidekick of sorts.  Ha, that last fight in the Flash mission is a tough one, huh?  Trelau outsmarted me and led the scientists to the still-burning-fire down the street!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 11, 2010, 05:48:20 PM
About the next mission

Spoiler: ShowHide

Got hammered and checked out the spoilers for Aquaman. I take it that the pink blobs are supposed to be the turrets mentioned earlier? Ok they do work and apparently the Martians cannot hit them because of the missing art files. So I spent over an hour throwing stuff at them while they shot at the turrets in vain. But at least it's possible now.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Trelau on April 11, 2010, 07:46:21 PM
Glad to see someone else is going through this mod, it's really a must-play. Also glad that i found a unexpected way to beat a tough fight ^^

So just a quick message out of courtesy: i'm going to india for the next two weeks, so i'm gonna be MIA for quite some times. That doesn't mean i'm not gonna finish this mod when i come back, and i'll definitely try to post reviews for the metropolis mission (and the rest) as soon as i have a chance.

So don't worry if i stop posting here, i'm not stopping until i finish all the campaigns :cool:
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 11, 2010, 09:17:54 PM
About the next mission

Spoiler: ShowHide

Got hammered and checked out the spoilers for Aquaman. I take it that the pink blobs are supposed to be the turrets mentioned earlier? Ok they do work and apparently the Martians cannot hit them because of the missing art files. So I spent over an hour throwing stuff at them while they shot at the turrets in vain. But at least it's possible now.


Okay EoB, those turrets' mesh should have been in the mod, but I apparently screwed up and left them out.  I'm going to see about putting up a smallish patch sometime in the next few weeks with a few different tweaks, assuming I can find the energy to mess with the DCUG.  In the meantime, you can simply download the meshes themselves here:

Then drop that folder into your DCUG/Art/Library/Characters folder, and you're all set.

http://www.mediafire.com/?tummf2ttmmj

I'm guessing it worked for Trelau because, like me, he had the mappack installed, so the game just looked in there for it when it couldn't find it in the DCUG folder.  Any performance issues your having are likely the result of the fact that we're all using different PC's that have very different specs.  Because something runs smoothly on my rig doesn't mean that it will run at all on someone else's.  Unfortunately, EZScript is somewhat more resource intensive than regular scripting just because of the way it works, and the JLA mod is rather epic in scope and scale.  The Batman and Hawkman ones should run a bit more easily.

Hey Trelau, have a great trip, man!  I definitely can't wait to read some more of your excellent reviews, but I suppose I'll have to.   :D
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 11, 2010, 09:36:52 PM
Well the bigger problem is that the mission would not end.

Spoiler: ShowHide

I went to the door that had the ! on it and examined it but did not complete the objective. The last group of bad guys a few WMs and 2 tanks I was able to ko because they did not fight back. However the mission still would not end. So since i had been at it for 3+ hours I used mission win. That said I had gotten 18/16 WMs so I didn't miss any. I am moving on, I cannot take anymore of that mission.

Oh as for performance the other missions run just fine. It was just the Aquaman one that is choppy and real slow.

The WW mission was much much better.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 11, 2010, 10:05:09 PM
Well the bigger problem is that the mission would not end.

Spoiler: ShowHide

I went to the door that had the ! on it and examined it but did not complete the objective. The last group of bad guys a few WMs and 2 tanks I was able to ko because they did not fight back. However the mission still would not end. So since i had been at it for 3+ hours I used mission win. That said I had gotten 18/16 WMs so I didn't miss any. I am moving on, I cannot take anymore of that mission.

Oh as for performance the other missions run just fine. It was just the Aquaman one that is choppy and real slow.

The WW mission was much much better.


Hmm.....that is extremely odd.  That's two fairly large bugs you've had.  It sounds like it is probably a bug related to cutscenes, since it has to do with the missions ending.  Any time you come across something like that, it would help me to troubleshoot if you'd post your script.txt before you moved on to the next mission (because the script log only record whatever was most recent).  There might be something in there that will help us.  At least you were able to get past it.  I'm glad you enjoyed the WW mission more.  The Aquaman mission is fairly resource intensive because there are several things going on at the same time.  Of course, it is also possible that something else entirely is at work here.  If it IS a performance issue, it will likely rear its head again in the Metropolis mission.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 11, 2010, 11:22:23 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
 About the next mission, how can you sneak past the guards? They activate  everytime I try. And then cut scene after cut scene of they spotted us really hurts. Batman starts to throw a exploding batarang at a large group, cutscene, ep gone no attack. That really smarts.

Oh and is there anyway to play camp missions in the rumble room with different characters. You have them locked in which means I cannot get any satisfaction from the Batman/Aquaman maps by playing them with another character.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 11, 2010, 11:33:21 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
 About the next mission, how can you sneak past the guards? They activate  everytime I try. And then cut scene after cut scene of they spotted us really hurts. Batman starts to throw a exploding batarang at a large group, cutscene, ep gone no attack. That really smarts.

Oh and is there anyway to play camp missions in the rumble room with different characters. You have them locked in which means I cannot get any satisfaction from the Batman/Aquaman maps by playing them with another character.


Spoiler: ShowHide
Try taking the extreme righthand path.  If you do that, there is only one guard that MIGHT spot you, and if you're careful, he'll never see you.  Take good advantage of Flash's speed to catch any guards that DO spot you.  He doesn't have to kill them, just knock them down long enough for you to take them out with Bats or MM.  


No, I'm afraid not.  You COULD do some relatively minor editing to allow that kind of play (creating skirmish files for the mission you want, replacing all references to the particular character with a generic "Hero1," etc.  However, they weren't designed for that, so I can't guarantee anything.  Also, you could make the references in the mission generic and then change the required hero through FFEdit.  That would work as well.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 11, 2010, 11:36:30 PM
Ok thanks for the mission info. As the second I have no idea how to do that.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 11, 2010, 11:46:08 PM
Ok thanks for the mission info. As the second I have no idea how to do that.

It'd be pretty easy.  You just open up the mission.txt folder within the mission that you'd want to change (and they are labeled in a very straight forward manner.  Then, you either copy the file into your stories directory (if you're doing option #1) or just edit the file (if you're doing #2), and, using the "replace" command under the "edit" button in notepad, change every specific reference to, say, "aquaman_classic" to "Hero1."  However, looking at the two missions you were interested in, they are already setup with the generic descriptor, so all you'd have to do is:

Either create a skirmish mission file, and for that you can simply copy one of the MiniMod files in your skirmish folder, rename it to, say, "02_jla," and change the reference within the file to point to 02_jla instead of whatever it was already pointing to.

OR

Open up FFEdit, point it at the DCUG, click on the campaign tab, find the mission you want to play with someone else, deselect the default hero, and select someone else.  If you can't save it after doing that, move the mission up and then back down in the order, and it will let you save.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 12, 2010, 12:59:39 AM
Hmm, I tried FFedit but it still gives me the default hero in the rumble room. Oh well I will try it again tomorrow.

Spoiler: ShowHide
I got to the Metropolis mission. It was great! The ruins at the edge of the city were great atmosphere and btw your cut scene dialog between the members of the JLA is excellent. "No telling what trouble Superman has gotten himself into" or something like that from Bats would be just what he'd say. 



I might not be able to play during the next four days depending on how work goes. But I will be playing again by Friday at the latest.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 12, 2010, 02:22:09 AM
Hmm, I tried FFedit but it still gives me the default hero in the rumble room. Oh well I will try it again tomorrow.

Spoiler: ShowHide
I got to the Metropolis mission. It was great! The ruins at the edge of the city were great atmosphere and btw your cut scene dialog between the members of the JLA is excellent. "No telling what trouble Superman has gotten himself into" or something like that from Bats would be just what he'd say. 



I might not be able to play during the next four days depending on how work goes. But I will be playing again by Friday at the latest.

Maybe I'll do a little write-up to explain how that is done, EoH.  I'm glad that you enjoyed the Metropolis mission so much!  It's good that you found one you liked without major bugs!  Haha, I was getting scared that nothing would work right. :P
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 14, 2010, 12:56:45 AM
Well I decided to play for just 30 minutes last night, yeah right!

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Once I started the final mission I had to finish and I did just before midnight! It was the best yet! I loved the character selection. The various waves were enjoyable and the Imperium was well done. The only small problem was that I couldn't target the pillars directly but emerald rockets and one boulder solved that little problem. Nice dialog on the post battle cut scene, Super Friends indeed! I will either do the JSA mission next or maybe the Project SP mod since it is short.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 14, 2010, 01:21:40 AM
Ok I have been trying the JSA mission but have problems. I had a save game from last night after I finished the last JLA mission but the enemy would not fight back. So I tried to restart the mission and it get's stuck at the end of a cut scene and I cannot do anything. I will post my script in the other thread.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 14, 2010, 11:21:30 PM
Well I decided to play for just 30 minutes last night, yeah right!

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Once I started the final mission I had to finish and I did just before midnight! It was the best yet! I loved the character selection. The various waves were enjoyable and the Imperium was well done. The only small problem was that I couldn't target the pillars directly but emerald rockets and one boulder solved that little problem. Nice dialog on the post battle cut scene, Super Friends indeed! I will either do the JSA mission next or maybe the Project SP mod since it is short.


Ha!  That's what I like to hear, that someone couldn't stop playing an adventure that I wrote.  I'm really happy to hear that, EoH!  Yeah, those stupid pillars gave me no end of headaches.  They work...somewhat now...so I've given up. :P  I'm glad you enjoyed the character selection.  After you get into the JSA campaigns a bit, you'll get to choose your own teams...assuming any of the missions work.

Ok I have been trying the JSA mission but have problems. I had a save game from last night after I finished the last JLA mission but the enemy would not fight back. So I tried to restart the mission and it get's stuck at the end of a cut scene and I cannot do anything. I will post my script in the other thread.

That is really odd...I looked at your script log, and I can see what the problem is, but it doesn't make any sense.  I'll post over there so we can troubleshoot.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 15, 2010, 01:28:59 AM
I posted my response over there. What characters are in the Mystery in space? I am thinking about that after Project Superpowers.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 17, 2010, 02:02:39 AM
Ok I was able to play the next two missions:

Spoiler: ShowHide
Nice job on the JSA mission it was good. The evil mage was a nice addition.

The JLA mission was excellent. Numerous funny cutscenes. I really liked the one about Mars having already invaded last week! Interesting mix of villains, makes me wonder who the master might be.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 17, 2010, 03:46:46 AM
Ok I was able to play the next two missions:

Spoiler: ShowHide
Nice job on the JSA mission it was good. The evil mage was a nice addition.

The JLA mission was excellent. Numerous funny cutscenes. I really liked the one about Mars having already invaded last week! Interesting mix of villains, makes me wonder who the master might be.



Thanks EoH, I'm glad that this is working for you now!  You didn't find the first JSA one too easy?  Heh, yeah, that JLA one was an experiment on my part, and I only just barely got it working.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 17, 2010, 01:25:13 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
No the mage flying around upped the difficulty level. Not too easy.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 17, 2010, 04:53:00 PM
I may have to give up on the JSA camp

Spoiler: ShowHide
 The previous mission was quite slow but because the JLAers could dish out massive damage I could get through and enjoy it. The next mission seems just as slow if not slower, I get no objectives, I examined one crate with a ! but nothing came of it. Because of the slowness it really isn't fun to use anybody but Sentinel and his creations. And the waves of bad guys keep coming and coming.


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 17, 2010, 07:11:37 PM
I tried to post the script for JSA 3 since no objectives come up. However it is 53 kb and won't post because it is too long. I cut it in half it is still too long.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 17, 2010, 08:28:30 PM
Ok I just skipped that mission with mission win and

Spoiler: ShowHide
The next one with the JLA worked a lot better. Still no objectives but it played just fine and ended when I koed Per Degaton. Nice villain selection and cut scenes. I enjoyed it.


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 17, 2010, 10:06:18 PM
I may have to give up on the JSA camp

Spoiler: ShowHide
 The previous mission was quite slow but because the JLAers could dish out massive damage I could get through and enjoy it. The next mission seems just as slow if not slower, I get no objectives, I examined one crate with a ! but nothing came of it. Because of the slowness it really isn't fun to use anybody but Sentinel and his creations. And the waves of bad guys keep coming and coming.


Yeah, remember, the JSA campaign didn't get much balance testing, as I was mostly just trying to get the darn things to work.  As a matter of fact, that third mission gave me no end of headaches, but I thought it was working when I released it.  I don't know what it's issue is, but it just never really ran properly.  I really just need to re-write the entire thing. :wacko:

Glad you liked the fourth mission.  It ran a good deal more smoothly for me, but the next one I never got to end properly.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 17, 2010, 11:01:24 PM
I may have to give up on the JSA camp

Spoiler: ShowHide
 The previous mission was quite slow but because the JLAers could dish out massive damage I could get through and enjoy it. The next mission seems just as slow if not slower, I get no objectives, I examined one crate with a ! but nothing came of it. Because of the slowness it really isn't fun to use anybody but Sentinel and his creations. And the waves of bad guys keep coming and coming.


Yeah, remember, the JSA campaign didn't get much balance testing, as I was mostly just trying to get the darn things to work.  As a matter of fact, that third mission gave me no end of headaches, but I thought it was working when I released it.  I don't know what it's issue is, but it just never really ran properly.  I really just need to re-write the entire thing. :wacko:

Glad you liked the fourth mission.  It ran a good deal more smoothly for me, but the next one I never got to end properly.

End properly? After the 4th mission the next one isn't there. It goes to the first FFVTTR mission which I thought was a placeholder of some sort. Did you mean

Spoiler: ShowHide

The first Mystery in Space mission? I tried that, had one combat, flew all over the map multiple times and nothing else happened. Was something else supposed to happen?

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 18, 2010, 04:23:35 AM
End properly? After the 4th mission the next one isn't there. It goes to the first FFVTTR mission which I thought was a placeholder of some sort. Did you mean

Spoiler: ShowHide

The first Mystery in Space mission? I tried that, had one combat, flew all over the map multiple times and nothing else happened. Was something else supposed to happen?



Hmm...I must have forgotten to put it in the campaign line-up.  It's just as well, it didn't work properly.  There are technically three more JSA missions that are finished, but have various game-breaking bugs that I simply can't solve.  Hence the unfinished nature of this release. :P

Okay, the first MiS mission, someone had trouble with that during my brief first release, so I was afraid this would happen again.  Yeah, something else was DEFINITELY supposed to happen.  Would you mind giving that mission a shot a second time and then posting your script log?  It works fine for me, so I needed someone to be able to actually experience the bug.  That is one thing I will address as soon as I can fix it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 18, 2010, 01:45:07 PM
Ok I will do that shortly
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 21, 2010, 01:49:40 AM
Well I decided to try the Batman camp and just did mission 1

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I really enjoyed it even though I am not a Batman reader or big fan. I really liked the Batmoblie and using it's weapons on  the Penguins gang. Also the laser torch on Mr Freeze was very amusing. I guess that makes me a psycho Batman player?  :D I do wonder is Freeze's possible friend is Killer Frost?


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 21, 2010, 11:14:42 PM
Tried mission 2 and

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Anytime I get anywhere near the dr the mob around him starts attacking and koes him before I can get in range to do anything and I lose. Is there some trick to this?


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 22, 2010, 08:05:24 PM
Well I decided to try the Batman camp and just did mission 1

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I really enjoyed it even though I am not a Batman reader or big fan. I really liked the Batmoblie and using it's weapons on  the Penguins gang. Also the laser torch on Mr Freeze was very amusing. I guess that makes me a psycho Batman player?  :D I do wonder is Freeze's possible friend is Killer Frost?




Haha, I had that one balanced for Bats on foot!  I bet you had a pretty easy time of it with the Batmobile.  I never have gotten the rubber bullets to work properly......As for his friend....well, you'll just have to wait and see!

Tried mission 2 and

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Anytime I get anywhere near the dr the mob around him starts attacking and koes him before I can get in range to do anything and I lose. Is there some trick to this?




Hmm....I never found it that bad, but I can tweak it to give him a head start.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 23, 2010, 02:30:06 AM
Well I decided to try the Batman camp and just did mission 1

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I really enjoyed it even though I am not a Batman reader or big fan. I really liked the Batmoblie and using it's weapons on  the Penguins gang. Also the laser torch on Mr Freeze was very amusing. I guess that makes me a psycho Batman player?  :D I do wonder is Freeze's possible friend is Killer Frost?




Haha, I had that one balanced for Bats on foot!  I bet you had a pretty easy time of it with the Batmobile.  I never have gotten the rubber bullets to work properly......As for his friend....well, you'll just have to wait and see!

Tried mission 2 and

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Anytime I get anywhere near the dr the mob around him starts attacking and koes him before I can get in range to do anything and I lose. Is there some trick to this?




Hmm....I never found it that bad, but I can tweak it to give him a head start.

Huh?

Spoiler: ShowHide
 There are 5 villains right by the doctor. I round the corner throw some smoke and he is koed before the pellets get there. I have reloaded multiple times and they always start beating on him before I can blind them or do any damage at all. Except for the batmobile's rocket but that koes him too and first. Unless there is some way to lure the villains away or sneak up on them(which I tried to do by climbing the building and failed since it triggered the attack before the reached the front and started my climb) it looks impossible.


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 23, 2010, 02:55:29 AM
Wait, did the CS not play?  He's supposed to start moving towards you before the action actually starts.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 23, 2010, 03:12:52 AM
No he just says Help me and they start beating on him nothing else.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 23, 2010, 03:21:03 AM
Curses.  Okay, I'll have to test this one to see what is going on.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Cyber Burn on April 25, 2010, 08:01:31 AM
I really need to download this. I feel like I'm missing something that is truely amazing.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 27, 2010, 04:25:30 PM
Okay EoB, I've fixed a BUNCH of stuff....here's just hoping that it all works properly.  I'll be uploading a patch shortly.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 27, 2010, 05:09:56 PM
And here it is:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1jnmyormefg
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 28, 2010, 02:03:29 AM
Great! I may not have time to start playing again until the weekend though. But I will give feedback asap.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 28, 2010, 03:17:55 AM
Thanks EoH, you've been really helpful as a tester, though I'm sorry that such was necessary. :)
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Amazo Version 2.2 on April 28, 2010, 07:09:41 PM
A quick question... I was fortunate enough to have downloaded the beta version. I am planning to download the new version and patch this weekend. When I install the new version, will it overwrite the existing files for the DCUG? I am hoping to keep all the extra skins that I have added to the meshes found in the custom file.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 28, 2010, 08:08:11 PM
Howdy Amazo, it would be a very good idea to delete the previous installation because I eliminated a lot of overlap and redundancy, as well as making REALLY big changes between here and there.  For example, now all meshes share keyframes, which are stored in a new directory.  If you want to keep those skins, I'd suggest backing all of them up and reinstalling them over the top of a fresh copy of the DCUG.  It might also be a good idea to wait a few days until I can upload a new main download version.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Amazo Version 2.2 on April 28, 2010, 09:04:25 PM
That works. Thanks.  :D
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 30, 2010, 12:53:15 AM
Thanks EoH, you've been really helpful as a tester, though I'm sorry that such was necessary. :)

I was able to replay the 2nd Batman mission tonight and it worked this time!


Spoiler: ShowHide
 So Talia or rather Ras al Ghul is behind this, interesting. I will play more this weekend.


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 30, 2010, 01:05:04 AM
Perhaps. ;)

Glad it's working now!

I forgot to add some meshes that I'd done the ghosting fix on to the patch...I'll get to that eventually, but they are in the MiS campaign.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Cyber Burn on April 30, 2010, 10:26:44 PM
Howdy Amazo, it would be a very good idea to delete the previous installation because I eliminated a lot of overlap and redundancy, as well as making REALLY big changes between here and there.  For example, now all meshes share keyframes, which are stored in a new directory.  If you want to keep those skins, I'd suggest backing all of them up and reinstalling them over the top of a fresh copy of the DCUG.  It might also be a good idea to wait a few days until I can upload a new main download version.

Having not been able to download this yet (lousy dial-up), should I wait for this new version as well? Will there be an installer?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on April 30, 2010, 10:36:22 PM
I completed the 3rd Batman mission

Spoiler: ShowHide
 and enjoyed it. The Riddler's crack about the jr partner of the freak show was the best of several funny cut scenes. Robin's quip about PI trying to kill him and then he gets over it was fun as well.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on May 01, 2010, 08:48:51 PM
Just completed Bat4:

Spoiler: ShowHide
Nice mission, I enjoyed it. HQ is even crazier than I thought. She is guarding an A-bomb? Sheesh!

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on May 04, 2010, 02:30:08 AM
Bad news on Bat5. It keeps crashing to desktop during the mission briefing 4 straight tries. I don't know if the script will help since I never get to start the mission but will post it anyway.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 04, 2010, 04:18:00 AM
Bah!  I'm swamped at the moment, but I'll try and do some testing by the end of this week.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on May 04, 2010, 11:30:14 PM
No rush, if I have time to play this weekend I'll just change to the Mystery in Space campaign. 
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 08, 2010, 01:28:54 AM
Alright EoB, I'm going to take a shot at troubleshooting this tonight.  Cross your fingers.

:EDIT: Urg...so, I've found the issue, but apparently there are some other problems wrapped up in it, of course.  As soon as I get the energy to re-write a base scene, I'll patch it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 19, 2010, 03:53:06 AM
And I found that energy.  I'll be uploading a more polished DCUG with all of the bugs (except the JSA ones) fixed soon.  I'll get around to finishing the JSA campaign....one day.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 21, 2010, 07:21:09 AM
Alright, I'm uploading the mod now.  It should be available tomorrow.  I'll try and put together a patch for those who have already downloaded it.  I would also really love for someone to volunteer to test the big download and make sure it works.  I know that's a lot to ask, but I would really appreciate it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 21, 2010, 06:14:48 PM
Annnnnd it is available!

http://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/dcug-fixed/
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on August 21, 2010, 06:58:33 PM
What's the size of the mod, buddy? I want to try it and I'll be your tester if I have space enough.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 21, 2010, 07:01:13 PM
The mod packed up is around a gig (a little over), unpacked, right around 3.5.  So, it's big, but it is only half of what it once was.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on August 21, 2010, 07:05:57 PM
Ok, you got your tester, Mr. Grey.
I'll start downloading the mod today.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 21, 2010, 09:50:00 PM
...and finish downloading it next week!  Ha, thanks JJ!  I know it's gigantic, so I really appreciate you doing this.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 22, 2010, 04:19:55 AM
Alrighty, and now for those of you who have patiently been waiting for a smaller patch, here you go!:

http://www.mediafire.com/?t9kbxqa37un4o9c
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on August 22, 2010, 04:25:56 PM
Great! I have been able to resume the Batman campaign. I don't have much time to play today but did finish the next mission.

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Chasing the Cold. Very enjoyable. Gotta love the classic "destroy the world with giant ray device" plots.



Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on August 23, 2010, 01:46:24 PM
Alright, I'm uploading the mod now.  It should be available tomorrow.  I'll try and put together a patch for those who have already downloaded it.  I would also really love for someone to volunteer to test the big download and make sure it works.  I know that's a lot to ask, but I would really appreciate it.

The download works just fine. You'll only need 7-zip to extract it.
I had time only to test some of the characters in the Rumble Room and I have to say Benton made a great job with the hero files, his Bat Squad guys are very fun to play.
The music and custom screens are great too. I'm looking forward to test the JLA campaign.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 23, 2010, 03:16:18 PM
Awesome!  Thanks JJ, it's a relief to find out it works.  I hope you enjoy the campaigns!

EoB, just you wait, my friend, just you wait! ;)
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 24, 2010, 02:36:51 AM
Whoops, I somehow forgot the female_basic keyframe set.  You can get it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ch7ertj9olgo68p

Thanks to JJ for pointing this out for me!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on August 27, 2010, 09:12:20 PM
I am having a problem with the next mission

Spoiler: ShowHide
 There seems to be only one way to go with the mountains and fences. I cannot get the guard by the cave entrance before he triggers the alarm and I lose.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 27, 2010, 10:05:18 PM
Hey man, let me take a look at it, but:

Spoiler: ShowHide
Have you tried overpowering your bola or your electric batarang?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on August 27, 2010, 10:54:59 PM
I'll try it again but

Spoiler: ShowHide
 On the last guy I didn't even get a shot off before he reached the switch.

Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on August 28, 2010, 02:15:29 AM
Ok I tried that again at least 5 times and

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Whenever I actually got to the last guy Robin always missed him. So in extreme frustration I gave up and used the Mission Win cheat to advance.

I was really enjoying the next mission until I tried to sabotage the generator. It doesn't work, the command to sabotage just stays there no matter how many times I try it. I cannot smash the generator either.  :banghead:

Posted my script in that forum.


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 28, 2010, 04:33:11 AM
Ok I tried that again at least 5 times and

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Whenever I actually got to the last guy Robin always missed him. So in extreme frustration I gave up and used the Mission Win cheat to advance.

I was really enjoying the next mission until I tried to sabotage the generator. It doesn't work, the command to sabotage just stays there no matter how many times I try it. I cannot smash the generator either.  :banghead:

Posted my script in that forum.




Gah!  It's always something.  I played through BOTH of these before I re-released for heaven's sake.  I'll give this a look now.

:EDIT: Alright, a quick play through of mission 6 has confirmed that he is too close to the switch.  I'll just move him, and it should be fine.

:EDIT: Well, two easy fixes there, at least.  I'll upload a patch in a little while.  In the meantime, I think I know what the problem is EoB.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Sometimes, sabotage doesn't like certain objects that much, or rather, certain places on certain objects.  Move to the other side of the generator, then try it again.


Patch: http://www.mediafire.com/?k1qas9dgv6xhf5k
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: earl of bronze on August 28, 2010, 04:39:55 PM
Ok I tried that again at least 5 times and

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Whenever I actually got to the last guy Robin always missed him. So in extreme frustration I gave up and used the Mission Win cheat to advance.

I was really enjoying the next mission until I tried to sabotage the generator. It doesn't work, the command to sabotage just stays there no matter how many times I try it. I cannot smash the generator either.  :banghead:

Posted my script in that forum.




Gah!  It's always something.  I played through BOTH of these before I re-released for heaven's sake.  I'll give this a look now.

:EDIT: Alright, a quick play through of mission 6 has confirmed that he is too close to the switch.  I'll just move him, and it should be fine.

:EDIT: Well, two easy fixes there, at least.  I'll upload a patch in a little while.  In the meantime, I think I know what the problem is EoB.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Sometimes, sabotage doesn't like certain objects that much, or rather, certain places on certain objects.  Move to the other side of the generator, then try it again.


Patch: http://www.mediafire.com/?k1qas9dgv6xhf5k

Ok that worked!

Spoiler: ShowHide
 I really liked the cave mission. Nice job on the ending for poor mr Freeze. Nice that he didn't get totally screwed for once!


Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 28, 2010, 09:01:52 PM
Thanks EoB!  That was the ending I've always wanted for him, and that was more or less the idea that the entire campaign was built around.  You might see those two show up again one day, though.  However, the immediate future of the Batman campaign has a different star...now I just need to get around to writing the stories....
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: SpecterFan on September 02, 2010, 10:17:52 PM
I'm having a problem with DCUG and I'm hoping someone can help.

I downloaded all the files from Mediafire. I placed each file into a seperate folder and removed the .oo# on the end leaving me with DCUG.zip in each folder. I tried to extract the first .zip file to a folder I named "Merged" [The idea being to extract each file in turn and to then zip up the new file with WinRAR.]

Instead I got an Error Message ....The archive is either in unknown format or damaged

I have no idea what to do! Any suggestions?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on September 02, 2010, 10:43:40 PM
Check the readme, Lu.  You need to use a .zip program, in which you select the merge option.  I use 7-Zip.  With that program, you select all of the files at the same time, then simply right click and choose "extract."  It will then combine it into a single .zip file.

SpecterFan,
I only managed to extract the mod using 7zip, so I suggest you try it. Just follow the Read Me instructions and you'll get it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 03, 2010, 12:45:42 AM
7-Zip really does seem to help, but whatever you do, select all of them together, right click, and THEN use your unzip program.  They are partitions, so trying to take them apart one at a time is a bad idea.  I hope you enjoy it, SF!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on September 03, 2010, 01:07:33 AM
BTW I just finished the Hawkman/Atom campaigns.
Spoiler: ShowHide
Great job with the meshes, skins and hero files, Benton. Everyone had just the right powers and skills, Atom's was just perfect and I really liked how you made Katar and Shayera different.
I'm very impressed with the Thanagar map, it was beautiful and really served the story, in fact all maps were great.
Characterization was spot on, everyone had good lines and "sounded" true to their classic comic book counterparts. I felt like I was reading a classic comic book, so congrats.
The Missions were the main difference between the two campaigns. The Atom missions were too similar, too much of "bash the thug army", not bad, but not great too, but the Hawk's campaign was just about perfect. Good choice of villains, great motivations, different encounters/objectives. It just needed some music and voice packs to be perfect. Looks like you're ready to write a Hawkman mini, buddy.
I really liked the first part of your Big Mod, and I'm looking forward to play with the JLA.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 05, 2010, 12:47:31 AM
BTW I just finished the Hawkman/Atom campaigns.
Spoiler: ShowHide
Great job with the meshes, skins and hero files, Benton. Everyone had just the right powers and skills, Atom's was just perfect and I really liked how you made Katar and Shayera different.
I'm very impressed with the Thanagar map, it was beautiful and really served the story, in fact all maps were great.
Characterization was spot on, everyone had good lines and "sounded" true to their classic comic book counterparts. I felt like I was reading a classic comic book, so congrats.
The Missions were the main difference between the two campaigns. The Atom missions were too similar, too much of "bash the thug army", not bad, but not great too, but the Hawk's campaign was just about perfect. Good choice of villains, great motivations, different encounters/objectives. It just needed some music and voice packs to be perfect. Looks like you're ready to write a Hawkman mini, buddy.
I really liked the first part of your Big Mod, and I'm looking forward to play with the JLA.


Thanks so much for the feedback, man!  I'm glad you enjoyed the Atom.  He was a challenge, but I thought that his build captured a decent range of his abilities.  Yeah, I really wanted the Hawks to be more than just carbon copies of each other (a syndrome a little too common in the DCUG; Aqualad and Aquagirl still give me fits).  Reading through the first volume of Hawkman, their varieties of weapons gave me lots of ideas. :D

Spoiler: ShowHide
The Thanagar map was created by HumanTon, and I am very indebted to him for doing such a spectacular job.  All I did was tweak the colors so that it appeared more alien. 

Thanks!  I tried to bring out the classic personalities of the Hawks, while bringing in some modern elements to make them stand out a bit from the other heroes.  With the Atom, I had a bit of a hard time.  I don't have quite as clear an idea of who Ray Palmer is as I do for a lot of the other characters I've worked with.  I need to find some "hook" for him.

Yeah, I have a storyline set up for the Atom (you can see elements of it being established in those missions, but I'm starting with his least interesting villains.  There isn't a whole lot to them, and I'm afraid my level design was often less than stellar.  I'm glad you enjoyed the Hawk's campaign so much, though.  I really enjoyed Byth as a villain.  I have big plans for him, too.  What did you think when he turned into the dragon? ;)

The DCUG is actually set up to work with my voice packs, so you can download the Hawkgirl one (and I think Hawkman uses some of the generic voices from VPMAX).


Thanks!  I would love to take a crack at the Hawks.  They are some of my favorite characters. :)  I'm actually beginning some preliminary work on some new missions for these guys.  Would you mind helping me sketch some stuff out for the new Atom missions?  I'm stuck on something.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on September 09, 2010, 03:46:07 AM
OK, I'm halfway through the JLA campaign, so it's feedback time:
Spoiler: ShowHide

Martian Manhunter:
I really like J'onn, so was a blast have a Manhunter solo mission. Great build (you gave the player a lot of different strategies to use against the White Martians, and I really liked the diversity), great choice for map, meshes and skins and a fun mission. I liked the "save the astronaut" encounter, but it had a weird bug. After I got "Buzz Lightyear" to the safe place he ran after J'onn to fight the White Martians...Of course, poor Buzz was clobbered.
J'onn characterization was spot on, stoic, heroic and noble.
Quite frankly I liked all about this mission, no complaints here. Probably the best mission so far.
Batman:
Again good build and choice of meshes, skins and map. The use of the mines and the flame thrower gave Bats a fair chance to fry the badguys if he's smart enough to avoid a close combat (of course, the Martians are faster than Brucie, so sometimes it was hard to get some distance to use a bomb...). The last objectives fooled me with the "Survive..." thing. I got Bats hidden and waited, but nothing happened so I came back and defeated the Martians. Maybe should be better change the phrasing of the objectives, but it's a minor quibble. Once again, great mission.
Superman:
Typical Superman short story: save Olsen, defeat the bad guys and save the city. Your Superman build is great, but he's so powerful that he made the Martians look harmless, the mission was kinda of easy. Anyway the bomb encounter was great: fight two martian squadrons and disarm the bomb in less than 5 minutes  give some challenge to Supie. This mission was not so good as the others, but it was fun enough.
Green Lantern:
Again, great choices about the visuals and good characterization. Jordan sounded like the cocky space cowboy we all know, but he was a lot less annoying than his comic book counterpart, maybe you should replace that Johns guy and write Green Lantern. The ring/kid sidekick was weird, but fun. Again a fun mission.
So, I'm really liking the campaign. The characters are very well done and the missions are interesting, the gameplay is very good. Great job, buddy.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: SpecterFan on September 09, 2010, 10:41:46 PM
Looks like I may never get to play.

I did what I was told. I extracted all the files together to DCUG.zip thinking that this would create a merged file that I could unzip to my FFv3R directory. (Don't ask me why because even I don't know.) The end result was a folder named DCUG.zip and several errors.

Thinking that I may have damaged the files when I downloaded them, I went back to MediaFire to download them ALL again. I have them all except #12. MediaFire WILL NOT cooperate. I have spent several days trying to download 1 file. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Any other advice concerning anything I may be doing wrong would also be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 09, 2010, 11:15:16 PM
SpecterFan, 7-ZIP will be able to unzip the whole thing from all of the individual pieces.  You don't have to do anything to combine them or unzip them twice.  Basically, you just put all the pieces in the same place, select ALL of them, right click, go down to 7-ZIP, select "Extract," and just point the path to your FF2 directory.  It will take a little while, but once it is done you should have a folder reading "DCUG" in your FF2 directory.  If THAT doesn't work, then there is most definitely something wrong with the files that you have.

However, piece #12 is giving me trouble as well, so that's not just you.  I'll upload a replacement later tonight.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: SpecterFan on September 10, 2010, 04:33:07 PM
Thanks.

That's exactly the kind of clarification I needed.

Now all I need is part #12.....
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 11, 2010, 03:52:52 AM
Alright..........I'm not sure what to do here.  I've uploaded a new version of #12, and it STILL won't download.  I've got a ticket into their support department, but since I've just got a free account I'm not holding my breath.  It's just a little too large to email...darn it!

JJ, I didn't respond to your feedback!  Sorry man:

Spoiler: ShowHide

*J'onn has become a favorite of mine since JLU, and it made perfect sense to me that he, the heart of the League, should be the impetus for its foundation.  Him as the beginning of this little story really seemed right.  Poor Buzz!  Ha, I may have to check that one day...I don't know why he would do that, exactly, but I used a pretty jury rigged script to try and make that little episode happen.  I'm glad you liked MM and that mission!  It was one of the missions that I was least contented with when I started preparing for this re-release a while back, so I tried to polish it up a bit.

*Haha, yeah, I really wanted to give Bats a stealth mission of sorts, one where you had to use brains over brawn.  I've blown poor Bruce up along with those Martians more than once.... :unsure:  If those darn Martians were a little smarter in their hunting...but yeah, maybe I should make that more explicit.  Once upon a time it was based on a timer, but it didn't want to work, so I simplified things.  Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!

*Yeah, Supes' mission was, I'm afraid, a bit by the numbers.  I agonized over how to punch up the danger to Supes on that mission.  Those darn traps wouldn't hit hard enough, even on "Very High" damage...or maybe it was "Extreme."  Either way, I had a hard time balancing it, because I had to use the same villains as would show up elsewhere.  If you let them gang up on you, they can do some major damage, but Supes is a bit too tough for them.  This one just more or less moves the plot forward.

*GL...ahh, this, which was just thrown in during my work on the main campaign, became one of my favorite missions.  Thanks!  I worked really hard to try and find a personality for Hal that was A) Not wooden, and B) Not horribly obnoxious!  I really like his Ring.  I actually want to write more Hal just so I can do more with the Ring.  That dynamic has so much potential! :D

I'm very happy to hear you're enjoying the JLA campaign so much, my friend.  It is, undoubtedly, the one that has received the most polish and work.  It's the flagship of the mod.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 13, 2010, 08:36:07 PM
Alright, it looks like whatever weird little thing Mediafire had going on is over now.  You can get piece #12 here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?vzcepe07jj2qqx0

The download works properly now.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on September 14, 2010, 05:58:54 PM
More feedback about the JLA campaign:
Spoiler: ShowHide

Flash:
A very fun mission. The use of the save encounters gave some variety to the Mission. I liked Barry's characterization, but I have to agree with Trelau, an Iris appearance would have made the Mission more fun. Flash's built was just perfect and the last fight against the martians was a challenge. I like when we have to get a plan to fight boss villains. Great job here, buddy!

Aquaman:
Well, I need to say Artie's built and characterization were spot on? :D
Of course they were. Aquaman sounded as Aquaman and his power level was very good. I liked the power variety, since I could choose attack my opponents physically or mentally. The mission was very, very hard. Some health cannisters would have been welcomed. The game play was simple, since was an all-out action mission, not so good as the Manhunter's, but solid.

Wonder Woman:
Great job! One of your best! Great idea about the labyrinth and the riddles. After the ton of "smash the minions" fights in Aquaman's mission this was a great change of pace. And it even had music!! The villains were kinda of weak, but they were very well chosen, the kind of foes we would expect in a challenge of the Gods. A+ job!

JLA vs martians:
Bats, Flash and MM had a tough mission. A little too tough maybe. There was so many white martians fighting they made the game very slow... In the end I had defeated 99 martians :blink: Maybe you should edit it a little to spawn less martians. It could easily become a nightmare for a new player. 


I'm really liking the campaign, the builts are great and the characterization is solid. I know you love the JL Animated Series and it shows. Guys like Bats and Superman "sound" just like their animated counterparts. The campaign looks just like a extra-length episode.
Great work! 
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: SpecterFan on September 14, 2010, 06:57:10 PM
The link for 012 worked perfectly! Thanks Mr Grey!  :thumbup:

I'll try to get it installed tonight.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on October 17, 2010, 08:49:10 PM
I finished the JLA campaign and it's really fun. It plays like a mix of the JLU animated episodes and Grant Morrison's JLA series. If you don't got the DCU already go ahead and get it. It's a heavy download? Sure, but it's worth, with a ton of meshes, skins, great hero files and some great campaigns.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Benton,
I was very surprised with Bald, Psycho Bel Juz. She's a far cry from the manipulative, long haired, cowardly Bel from the Silver Age. Did you created her or she appeared in any Modern Age comic?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on October 17, 2010, 09:00:37 PM
Thanks JJ!  I'm really glad you enjoyed it.  What's funny about your description is that I hadn't really read most of Morrison's JLA run when I plotted most of the JLA story arc.  Looking back on it though, I suppose it does have some similarities. :)  Thanks for the high praise my friend!  I was definitely pulling heavily from JLU, although trying to correct things I thought they messed up on *cough*Aquaman*cough*.  To answer your question:

Spoiler: ShowHide
I wondered what you'd think about her considering your use of the Silver Age character!  I loved your version, so perfectly captured from the comics, and mine is definitely a very different animal.  Honestly, I knew almost nothing about her when I decided to incorporate her.  I read a summary of a story she appeared in on a Martian Manhunter blog, and thought 'hey, I can actually put in a nemesis for MM!  I really wanted to have villains for as many of the heroes in the DCUG as I could manage.  I asked for someone to make me a "female Martian Manhunter," and the excellent skin you see in the DCUG was what I got in return.  I wanted her to be something of a bridge between the White and Green Martians.  As for her characterization, I mostly just wanted her to be an evil reflection of J'onn, and I wanted to give them a complicated relationship, to make the betrayal of the White Martians more personal.  I felt pretty free to do what I wanted, since I didn't think that anyone would ever know who she was patterned after! :D  Anyway, what did you think?  Did she serve her purpose?  Did you notice I let her get away?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: John Jr. on October 17, 2010, 10:40:52 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Bald Bel works great as a Modern Age villain, Benton. And since J'onn is the classic "wise and noble hero" she is kinda of a distorted image, works like the classic Batman/Joker dichotomy.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: KOVAV17 on December 25, 2010, 11:02:05 PM
ok....I know people are going to want to burn me at the stake for necromancy, but I dont know where else I can ask this. ok, I merged all the files into a zipped folder and put that folder in the ff main folder. so It works fine, right up until I get on rumble room. I make a team of my most favorite chars, and loe and behold, deathstroke, super boy, flash, and bat man are all black squarish thingies. is this because I have steam? any help anyone?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on December 31, 2011, 04:08:21 AM
Wow, I sorta' missed this.  I hope that you found a solution Kovav17, if not, I hope that you'll come back and tell us so we can help you out.  Anyway, I wanted to give this a bit of a bump because I know a few folks have been having some troubles with the Hawkman campaign.  Feel free to post here and I'll do my best to help y'all figure it out.  Also, sometime in the next year I'd like to revisit the DCUG, finish the JSA campaign and do a few more.  I also may not be able to keep myself from tweaking several of the characters.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on January 11, 2012, 03:10:59 AM
Hooray!  What once was lost now is found!  Some of y'all may recall that during a previous computer crash I thought that I'd lost several near-finished and finished missions out of the DCUG.  I had two Green Arrow missions, a few Hawkman and the Atom missions, and one or two other things that had suddenly vanished, gone for good...or so I thought!  I just discovered rough drafts for several of them tucked away in my Liberty Bay folder of all places.  Don't ask me what they were doing there, but their discovery means that when I return to working on the DCUG, I should have several missions all but ready to roll.  Unfortunately, one of my favorite missions I've ever created, a team-up between Hawkman and the Atom, is still missing.  I'm afraid that one is completely gone.  Still, I am really excited about this!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 13, 2013, 09:52:32 PM
Howdy gents, a newcomer to our community posted on The Greylands, trying to get the DCUG to work.  I walked him through some troubelshooting attempts, and while we've made progress, it looks like he's still having trouble.  I'm moving the conversation here so we'll have access to the community's collective wisdom.

Here is his latest comment:
Quote
i almoust punch my pc :p, yes is in spanish im from Argentina :)
I did as u tell and u we right it was in english (like u can see here i changed , maybe u see something that i dont in the folder that is wrong i dont know what else to think)

http://subefotos.com/ver/?e459f7b952611bab1e929fdc963385a6o.jpg

and i was so happy cause it didnt give any pop up error! and the screen get in black like it was gona start! but … :( nothing happens it just stay like that freeze :( i had to shut it down to get back to deskopt.

Connor, how long did you leave the game to load?  The DCUG is rather massive, and if you don't have a super powerful PC, it often takes a long time to load the first time.  That might not be what happened, but I wonder.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: connor11 on March 14, 2013, 01:45:21 AM
Thanks Benton for your welcome and again your help :p
im proud to said that now it .. WORKS :D thanks!
u were rigth it was just a bit of loading at the begining the second time it starts faster!
but now there is another issue, i begun the campaign well i finished the first mission, in the second one that is in that factory i killed everyone, i mean here are the last one robots and demons, 
http://subefotos.com/ver/?27e2bb6697121f490cefd31f52204e6bo.jpg

i look everywhere and ther is no one else to kill lol, so i can finish the misson. If u ask, i restarted the misson a couple of times and the same happens :/
i dont know what to do, maybe it would be helpfull if Benton give the load games of every single misson , so if something like this happen one can load the next misson. Just an idea.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 14, 2013, 01:54:12 AM
Hooray!  I'm very happy to hear it!

See that hourglass in the screenshot?  Smash it, and that will end the mission.  I mis-wrote the objective, so it doesn't indicate what it should.  I'll fix that eventually.

That's a good idea, and it has been suggested before.  I'll probably try to do that in the next release.

*Haha, I had to look up the mission file because it's been so long since I wrote that campaign that I had no idea what was supposed to happen!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: connor11 on March 14, 2013, 02:06:04 AM
Well it works cause of u lol
and it was just a simple modification.
oh ok now im gona end it then:p  well at least i help u what to do on the next update u make haha.
It would be very usefull i think
Im gona continue playing this amazing mod, if anything else happens i hope not lol, im gona text here.
by the way your inbox is full :p
thanks.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: connor11 on March 17, 2013, 03:58:54 AM
Well Benton i finished some campaigns of your amazign mod! U did a wonderfull job ! :) the Atom and Hawks campaigns were very fun, and the Jla too aswell. is the last misson the one were u go to the castle to  disarm the robots?
Also i see that there are a loooooooot of heros and villans, did u put them all to have fun in the rumble room?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: MrWayne16 on March 29, 2013, 01:00:18 AM
Your mod is currently my favorite game, man.  Great job! I've been playing it like crazy.  I do have a question, though.  Would there be any simple way for me to add other characters to the Rumble Room?  I have Windows 8 and Steam, so Alex's EZHero and the FFEdit programs don't work for me.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: hoss20 on March 29, 2013, 07:25:25 PM
You may want to check this thread: http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=51720.0;topicseen

I'm not really familiar with the Steam version or the problems that occur with it, but Tomato coincidentally bumped his original thread and mentioned that FFEdit doesn't work properly with the Steam version. I didn't realize this, and after seeing what he posted, it prompted me to post here. Though the thread mentions a registry fix for Vista, hopefully you can also apply it to Windows 8.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: MrWayne16 on March 30, 2013, 04:37:26 AM
Thanks, hoss. Unfortunately, none of the recommended methods seem to be working.  Is there any way to add a character without using FFEdit?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Borgaster on May 05, 2021, 10:46:41 PM
BentonGrey, i can't wait to play this mod. Do you have a date to release?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 06, 2021, 01:33:38 AM
Howdy Borgaster, thanks!  That's great to hear!  I had actually planned to have it finished last summer, but that obviously didn't happen.  Life has sort of been beating the tar out of the Greys, so things are sort of up in the air.  I'm afraid that the release date is "eventually, when life calms down."  But I definitely still plan to finish it.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: UnkoMan on May 08, 2021, 09:16:09 PM
Hello Benton!
Sorry to hear life is tough right now. I guess it's been tough for lots of people lately, not just on account of Covid.

I wanted to let you know... I was checking a hard drive and found a bunch of those Aquaman covers I was doing way back. Did you ever get that one going? If so, do you need these?
Just thought I would check. I'm not going to get rid of them or anything! They'll be there whenever you want.

Were there any OTHER covers you were looking for, in the meantime?
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 12, 2021, 03:05:28 PM
Hey Unko, great to see you on the boards, man!  Yeah, our story is by no means unique for this era.  This is just a rough time for a lot of folks.

I think I have all of the ones you made, but I'll definitely be happy to double-check that, and I am absolutely going to continue working on the mod and would love to keep working with you on covers and such.  I'll send you an email soon.  I'm hoping to get back to working on the project next week.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: UnkoMan on May 12, 2021, 03:42:01 PM
Oh, I lurk. I always lurk.
Well I hope things have an upswing for you and yours soon! For everybody really, we all need it.
Yeah, write me and lemme know. I'm certain you don't have them all, because I've got a bunch that don't have the aging on them yet. Just crisp looking, and the Aquaman covers aren't "numbered." I think the order hadn't been decided (or the missions for him hadn't been done yet. That might have been it.)
Take care!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Borgaster on May 17, 2021, 08:12:55 PM
This mod promise be the Best mod of DC Universe ever !
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 19, 2021, 04:28:12 AM
Why thank you, Borgaster!  I hope it will live up to your expectations!  I am finally getting back to work on it.  I hope I'll be able to post a Developer's Journal soon.

Unko, I have sent you that message.  Thanks again for touching base!
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: Borgaster on May 22, 2021, 11:26:39 PM
Why thank you, Borgaster!  I hope it will live up to your expectations!  I am finally getting back to work on it.  I hope I'll be able to post a Developer's Journal soon.

Unko, I have sent you that message.  Thanks again for touching base!

Thank you very much , Benton !
Title: Re: DCUG: Developer's Journal #5
Post by: BentonGrey on June 05, 2021, 06:23:05 AM
As promised, here's a new Developer's Diary, giving some insight into what I've been up to, how I've been doing, and what is on the horizon for the DC Universe according to Grey!  This one features a preview of the first few missions of my Aquaman campaign, and a lot of nitty-gritty info on how to do more with maps. 
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/dcug-developers-diary-5/
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: deanjo2000 on June 05, 2021, 12:17:43 PM
Amazing, lots of really cool stuff going on here. Everything is just so well done and the missions really come alive for the characters.
Title: Re: DCUG...RELEASED!
Post by: BentonGrey on June 05, 2021, 01:38:26 PM
Wow, thanks Dean!  That means a lot!  I'm really trying to create a well-crafted, polished version of the mod for this update/expansion.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Borgaster on June 11, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
This mod is simply amazing ! I can't wait for the new update. It is a pity that don't have more modders creating mods for this game. Freedom Force is best game ever of all times for play with comics super heroes !
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 11, 2021, 10:26:59 PM
Why thank you, Borgaster!  :D

I completely agree about  :ff: and  :ffvstr:.  And I really wish we had more modders still creating.  But that's part of why I'm making the DCUG, in hopes that folks will want to tell their own stories too, and that I can give them the tools to do that.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 28, 2021, 05:44:16 AM
Howdy guys, I'm working on an Atlantean palace map for my Aquaman campaign, and I'd really love some feedback.  To be clear, this is just a modification of the excellent palace map.

Here's what I've got so far.  I want it to look 'underwater-y', and I am relatively happy with it, but not entirely.  I'm not 100% sure about the texture for the columns, and I'm wondering if the floor and walls should be different textures, though I'm not sure what to change.  Finally, I'm really not happy with the throne.  It's supposed to be gold, but it doesn't look right.  The tapestries are going to be updated with a new color and the Aquaman symbol, but that's not done yet. 

:EDIT: I've revamped the map, got new textures for the floor and the columns (thanks to ND for that idea!), and I'm generally happier with it.  What do y'all think?

(http://i.imgur.com/uNCjNX1m.png) (https://imgur.com/uNCjNX1)
(http://i.imgur.com/uFFpxArm.png) (https://imgur.com/uFFpxAr)
(http://i.imgur.com/jk79nVxm.png) (https://imgur.com/jk79nVx)

I'm also thinking about adding some other objects to the map, as it seems a bit bare.  Any suggestions?  Ohh, and does anyone have any suggestions for a shell-like object that I could use for the back of the throne?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 28, 2021, 05:29:48 PM
I'll look at things for a possible shell back.

For the bare room, how about some armed guards at attention, just for looks, and some court figures - chamberlain, vizier or what have you. Maybe some giant clams, opened or closed?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 28, 2021, 05:41:18 PM
RD, you read my mind!  Here's what I've just come up with:

(http://i.imgur.com/kCegt2bm.png) (https://imgur.com/kCegt2b)
(http://i.imgur.com/dI8b7qbm.png) (https://imgur.com/dI8b7qb)
(http://i.imgur.com/kGZxCHMm.png) (https://imgur.com/kGZxCHM)
I found a shell object on 'Mato's Aquagirl skope, actually.  Check out the throne I put together in Nifskope, using your dolphins!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 28, 2021, 06:48:15 PM
Great Benton.

You of all people would know this, but is there a mesh or skin for his 60's troublemaking imp friend, Quisp? I've been reading some of the 60's comics and he's popped up a few times.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 28, 2021, 07:01:37 PM
Thanks!  I'm inordinately pleased with myself about the throne, haha.

Yes!  Ha, Quisp does indeed exist.  I actually thought I had him in the DCUG, but apparently I don't.  Weird.  I think he was made by Kssaints.  Apparently I don't have him, which vexes me.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 28, 2021, 07:04:37 PM
Don't be vexed! Its bad for your health.

I'll have to see if I have him then, unless someone else has him available?

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: naitvalis on June 28, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
I like the map so far Ben, and add more stuff to have a rich throne room is a good idea, i don't know maybe also some statue, but what i would really like to see is something that could gave an underwater feeling, maybe a transparent light blue big object that simulate the water, or some bubbles effect here and there...you have understand what i mean, always congratulations for your many works.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 28, 2021, 09:24:17 PM
How about a large statue honoring Neptune, trident in hand?

Also, some lighting scattered around  - some glowing crystals or globes of light like will o' wisps.

Some fish swimming randomly around.

Oh, and maybe some rays of soft blue or green light to help give it an underwater feel
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 28, 2021, 11:20:18 PM
Good ideas guys, thanks!

The water texture effect is something that I've considered a lot for these underwater missions, but there's not a good way that I've discovered to do it that works for gameplay and different camera angles, etc.

I've got some bubbles in the previous ocean floor map, coming up from the sea bed.  Do y'all think that would look out of place in the palace, or would it just feel 'aquatic'?

I feel like I once saw a map where someone (I thought CmdrKoenig, but I'm not sure) had replaced the pigeon ambient effect with fish.  If I can figure out how to do that, it would be really cool.  Unfortunately, I can't find the map in question.  Anyone remember it?

Anyone know how to add colored lights to a map?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 29, 2021, 09:54:00 AM
For the colored lights I think you can mess around in nifskope with the color wheels and change the shading and emission level. A light cone coming off of it or from above could be a simple semi - transparent mesh in a cone shape, using whatever basic color you want. Its been a long time but I think one of the early nighttime missions in FF did this with the street lights.

If that's not much help, I'll look around after I recover the files I just lost. Edit - same with the maps - I know I have a bunch CmdrKoenig's map tucked away.


RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: UnkoMan on June 29, 2021, 05:31:06 PM
Hey, this Atlantis map is looking GREAT. Love that floor.

One way to make it look "underwatery" might be to have little bits of mist floating around. It could give the impression of the sort of wavy things they always draw in comic book underwater scenes.

Also... bubbles? Pockets of bubbles? Maybe there's a way to suspend one of the FX?

Coloured lights I actually have a GREAT object for that in my city maps! I edited some regular light object? I forget the process, but the map is littered with various coloured light objects in purple, pink, blue, green.
http://heroforce.freedomforceforever.com/unkoman.html

EDIT: I think I had to edit values in nikskope, like RD mentions. If you can find the object and take it out, I'm pretty sure all you'd need to do is change the colour value.

As for a CONE of light, yes I do believe the streetlamps in FFvsTR has a cone effect. Is that a transparent object with a texture? If it IS, and I get the base texture I can easily whip up a "ray beam" style skin to go on there.

EDIT 2: Don't know how hard it is to take models and pose them?
https://www.models-resource.com/ds_dsi/finalfantasyiii/model/31406/
But if somebody could make this into a static pose and I got the skin file, I could easily put a statue skin on it.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: spydermann93 on June 29, 2021, 06:17:49 PM
I figure for posing that mermaid, it would have to be rigged to a skeleton then it could be posed. All of that should be doable in Blender.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: naitvalis on June 29, 2021, 06:48:43 PM
Another obvious trick is to make any character with that swimming animation i mean the flyng ones instead of walking and also use melee powers according to this, i know it is so obvious but gave really an immediate understand that the characters are underwater.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 29, 2021, 07:21:23 PM
Not sure who did it at the moment, But for swimming characters to have that bobbing motion and to animate well, there's a Triton (from the Inhumans) mesh with some great kfs. I know that I use this a lot for the fish and other creatures I've imported, and I think a lot of the Namor, Aquaman,and other swimmer meshes use the same kfs.

For the mermaid, it doesn't necessarily need rigging and kfs if its a statue - you can manually adjust the pose of the mesh to any position by changing the mesh itself.  For the Invisible Jet and Batplane meshes I just did, I stripped out the armature and posed Batman, Robin and Wonder Woman in sitting positions with their arms out to line up with the vehicle's control stick.  The thread's in the "Meshes" forum

For the cone of light, I don't know if you even need a texture. I think it would be similar to the selection ring which is semi transparent and has a natural purple color, which could be altered in nifskope. A blank white texture might work if you changed the lighting on it, or the material color in nifskope.

RD
 
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: UnkoMan on June 29, 2021, 07:56:26 PM
I do remember looking at the textures of the streetlights.
I can't recall if they were a solid gradient or a tone, but... It would be very easy to make a sort of "ray of light" texture and put some ripples like it's underwater.
https://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/11752739/thumb/1.jpg

Basically map an image like this to fit the square correctly. Not sure how that would look in game. Would it be weird to have the wavy bits on only a conal shape?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: spydermann93 on June 29, 2021, 08:06:45 PM
I'd say the light would only make sense if there are light sources in the throne room.

The "mist" could be a good idea to give some movement. Bubbles not so much since there wouldn't be air in there, right? Do DC Atlanteans have air pockets in their throne rooms?

Utilizing the swimming keyframes would definitely be the best way of showing you're underwater. And perhaps deeper, darker colors? Like, they could still be colorful, but perhaps a deeper blue filter if that's possible?

I'm just throwing ideas and thoughts out.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 29, 2021, 08:11:25 PM
Agree on the light cones - much more likely to be seen in shallow water from above, but you could have light sources on the walls projecting them.

Mounted lights on the walls or pillars, like Unko mentions, or floating light globes might fit the theme better.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 29, 2021, 08:39:12 PM
Wow, lots of cool stuff here, guys!  I actually already have all Aqua-related characters in the game in two versions, one with land keys and one with swimming keys, so that part is covered. :cool:  I'll have to make a video later of Aquaman 'flying' around, fighting Manta's minions.  It really doesn't look half bad.

I think in terms of creating new lights and such, I'm a little hesitant to get into it, though I do imagine that would look really awesome.  I think I understand, haha, but I'm only vaguely aware of how lights work in the map editor.  :unsure:

I actually have thought about trying to create an object that was a bowl with luminescent fish in it to serve as lights on some of the columns, but I'm not entirely sure how to go about it.  Maybe just globe lights, like RD suggested...

Spyder, dry or wet buildings depends on the era and version of Atlantis.  In mine, it's all aquatic.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the thoughts and ideas!

:EDIT: Okay...so I found the Python command that created the warp effect in  :ffvstr: #1.
Quote
def DreamFXIncrement():
   state = Mission_GetAttr('fx_state')+1
   Mission_SetAttr('fx_state',state)
   if state == 1:
      print "state 1"
#      Mission_SetDreamSinParams(1, .015, .25)
#      Mission_StartDreamWave(5,-1,0)
#      DreamFXStartPulsing()
   elif state == 2:
      print "state 2"
#      Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1, .02, .3, 1)
   elif state == 3:
      print "state 3"
      Mission_StartDreamWave(5,-1,0)
      Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1, .03, .35, 1)
   else:
      print "problem in DreamFXIncrement?"
def DreamFXStartPulsing():
   regTimer('DreamFXPulse',10)
def DreamFXPulse(event):
   if Mission_GetAttr('final_cs_playing') == 0:
      print "pulsing"
      Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1., .02, .3, 1)
      regTimer('DreamFXPulseStop',1)
   else:
      print "final CS playing; no pulse"
def DreamFXPulseStop(event):
   regTimer('DreamFXPulse',10)
   state = Mission_GetAttr('fx_state')
   if state == 1:
      print "state 1"
#      Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1, .015, .25, .75)
      Mission_StartDreamWave(0,0,1)
   elif state == 2:
      print "state 2"
#      Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1, .02, .3, .75)
      Mission_StartDreamWave(0,0,1)
   elif state == 3:
      print "state 3"
      Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1, .03, .35, .75)

I...MIGHT be able to use this to create an underwater effect, or it might be too much and not practical for gameplay long-term.  It'll take some experimentation.  The script documentation has a page on this, but I'm not really sure I can parse it.  Presumably I could tweak the settings to cover the entire map and provide just a little ripple, but I'm really not sure what the various numbers represent, exactly.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Quote
Warp Effects
These functions manage the screen warping effects.

Mission_SetEffectEdgeFade(bActive, edgeFadeWidth)

Turns on/off fading the warp effect off at the screen edges to keep the screen from looking rubbery.

Mission_SetWaveEnvelope(bActive, fadeIn, fullOn, fadeOut, speed, amplitude)

Sets parameters for the moving envelope around the waves. Fade units are in radial screen distance from the effect center, speed is in screen distance per second.

Mission_SetWaveRadiusParams( WorldRadius, MaxOffScreenRadius)

Sets the size of the wave effect.WorldRadius is the size of the sphere surrounding the effect.  MaxOffScreenRadius is the distance in screen units outside of the frame that the center point is clamped to if it falls way outside the view frustum.

Mission_SetWaveSinParams( waveFrequency, maxWaveFrequency, WaveAmplitude, WaveSpeed)

Sets the screen space wave parameters.  WaveFrequency is the number of waves visible across the WorldRadius when viewing close to the center.  The frequency will increase as the camera moves further away from the effect’s center.  MaxWaveFrequency is the maximum number of wave undulations across the projected.  worldRadius distance that will be visible, no matter from how far away.  WaveAmplitude is the amount of compression that the wave does on the screen space.  WaveSpeed is the speed of the wave from the center of the effect (this can be negative).

Mission_FadeWaveSinParams( waveFrequency, maxWaveFrequency, WaveAmplitude, WaveSpeed, fadeTime)

Like Mission_SetWaveSinParams, but the 4 parameters are smoothly faded in from the current parameter values.

Mission_StartWave(fadeInDuration, fullOnDuration, fadeOutDuration, centerPoint)

Starts the wave screen effect.  The effect will fade in for fadeInDuration seconds, will be at 100% for fullOnDuration, and will fade out for fadeOutDuration seconds.  The effect will be positioned at centerPoint in world coords.

Mission_SetDreamSinParams(waveFreq, waveAmplitude, waveSpeed)

Like Mission_SetWaveSinParams, for the dream sequence full screen vertical wave effect (but without the maxFreq param).

Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(waveFreq, waveAmplitude, waveSpeed, fadeTime)

Like Mission_SetDreamSinParams, but the values fade in in fadeTime seconds.

Mission_SetDreamYScale(yScale)

Determines how much the dream wave effect will track the vertical camera in the frame.

Mission_StartDreamWave(fadeIn, fullOn, fadeOut)

Like Mission_StartWave, but for the vertical wave dream effect.  Note that if fullOn is less than 0, the effect will fade in and then run forever, until you call Mission_StartDreamWave(0,0, 5), which will begin fading the effect out immediately over 5 seconds.

Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 30, 2021, 01:33:26 AM
So, Superpowered Yank made me a nice symbol for my Shadow banners, but I can't get the thing to brighten up properly.
(http://i.imgur.com/zzPtCm4m.png) (https://imgur.com/zzPtCm4)

I've turned every color bar up to the top of the brightness on every entry on the mesh, but nothing changes.  Anyone know what the deal is?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 30, 2021, 02:04:46 PM
Not an expert on that kind of thing, but does it have, or need a glow skin, with it?

Adjusting the color emitter wheel ( I think the bottom right one?) always worked for me.

This might help - read the "render settings" area about shading and lighting.

RD

Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 30, 2021, 03:43:34 PM
It doesn't have a glow, but I can try adding one and seeing if that does any good.

The color emitter is one of the things I was talking about.  I turned all of them all the way up.  No luck.  :P

What's the render settings area?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on June 30, 2021, 04:51:00 PM
oops - forgot the link

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope/Working_With_Nifs_101_:_Basic_Use (http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope/Working_With_Nifs_101_:_Basic_Use)

edit - reading this again, this might be more for just viewing in nifskope itself, but since its the nifskope home, it might be the best place to do some searching.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on June 30, 2021, 05:17:33 PM
Thanks man!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 03, 2021, 05:54:34 AM
Alright guys, I'm working on updating my SUPER ad hoc Atlantis map from my last full release.  I made it when I knew less about basically everything and had a lot less energy, so I'm trying to make a nicer version of it now that it'll feature in the Aquaman campaign and as a RR map.  I've got a lot of ideas, most of which I probably won't be able to bring to fruition, but here are a couple of the things I'm working on.  Let me know what you think:

I wanted some more set dressing appropriate for an underwater setting, so I've been working on creating some new objects.  One idea I had was to have 'coral hedges,' so I slapped a coral texture on the German hedge object, then colorized it, and here's what I've got.  How does the purple look?
(http://i.imgur.com/Pfe15tPm.png) (https://imgur.com/Pfe15tP)

I also wanted something like trees, but obviously actual trees would look super weird if we're supposed to be underwater, so I took the German poplar object and skoped a bunch of Cuban aloe plants onto it to create something like a kelp forest.
(http://i.imgur.com/tN0Kpafm.png) (https://imgur.com/tN0Kpaf)
(http://i.imgur.com/Zu2OwAWm.png) (https://imgur.com/Zu2OwAW)
(http://i.imgur.com/k7hlYFUm.png) (https://imgur.com/k7hlYFU)
Hard to get a good picture of them in the editor.  I'm fairly proud of myself for sorting their textures out, as that kind of thing is usually beyond me.  And I think the end product doesn't look half bad.

Finally, (for tonight) I created a new statue object out of RD's imported dolphin mesh.  I put the coral/marble texture I used for the palace's columns on it, but it didn't look right on a column, so I copied the basketball object and stuck it under the thing, and now I think it looks rather good on the pillar.
(http://i.imgur.com/KyvYCZ0m.png) (https://imgur.com/KyvYCZ0)

I've got a lot more work to do, but I've updated some of the textures on the map and have some new objects to play with.  What do y'all think so far?  I'll post some more WIP pictures tomorrow once I get a little further along, and I'd like some opinions on them when I do, as I'm torn on some thing.  To start with, I'm not quite sure what textures to use with the pillars the dolphin is on.  I don't love the ones from the palace map, but I'm not sure what to replace them with.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 03, 2021, 06:28:08 PM
A greenish - marble look might be good, but there's already so much green and blue it may get lost.

Were you able to fix your darkness problem with the banner?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 03, 2021, 07:00:49 PM
Thanks for the feedback, RD!  Yeah, I tried a greenish texture, and I think it does blend in too much.  I found a nice Greek column texture and made it a bit blue.  I think it works okay:
(http://i.imgur.com/I4qbwfIm.png) (https://imgur.com/I4qbwfI)
It might be too dim.

Unfortunately, I couldn't solve the banner issue.  I've got no idea what the deal is.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on July 03, 2021, 07:58:12 PM
It looks good though. A bit outside the box but maybe a nice bronze texture??
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 03, 2021, 10:13:01 PM
Benton - At present, I've restored about 30% of my files. Go ahead and send the banner over if you want. Also, what were your thoughts on the second form for Topo to make him more usable?

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 03, 2021, 11:09:53 PM
Great idea, Dean!

Slowly but surely, I hope, RD!  Will do!  Would you remind me of your suggestion?

So, I tried out a couple of oxidized bronze textures for some statuary, and I'm fairly happy with the results.  Now it's basically done.  Let me show y'all a before and after, and y'all can let me know if you have any suggestions.  As before, I'm basing all of this off an existing map.  This time it's the Ancient City map by the HumanTon.  As always, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants.

Ad hoc Atlantis: I threw this together just to have something for a base scene and in the hopes of using it in the future.  One of my only real contributions was to use simple color edits on some of the textures, because that's about all I could manage.
(http://i.imgur.com/6FR2ocUl.png) (https://imgur.com/6FR2ocU)
I actually sort of like that blue sand-ish texture that I slapped together, but I think Cmdrkoenig's are, of course, much better.
(http://i.imgur.com/RzifUxXl.png) (https://imgur.com/RzifUxX)
(http://i.imgur.com/FnSkAP1l.png) (https://imgur.com/FnSkAP1)
(http://i.imgur.com/G5wJC40l.png) (https://imgur.com/G5wJC40)

Atlantis 2.0: A ton new here, and I've created custom objects and more to go with it.
(http://i.imgur.com/vJsGHd1l.png) (https://imgur.com/vJsGHd1)
I'm using one of Cmdrkoenig's udnerwater textures for the ground, and I think it works pretty well. 

(http://i.imgur.com/43zVx7Wl.png) (https://imgur.com/43zVx7W)
Here's an underwater garden, complete with bubble-fountain and cultivated coral.  I'm not sure about the coral hedges.  What do y'all think?  Too bright?  Too big?

(http://i.imgur.com/3C2IeVEl.png) (https://imgur.com/3C2IeVE)
Aquaman and his subjects take a swim in the garden.

(http://i.imgur.com/nF36p4ll.png) (https://imgur.com/nF36p4l)
Based on the amazing work of RD and 'Mato, I've got a really cool seahorse mount for the Aqua Family.  It isn't fully animated, so they won't be playable, but it will make great set pieces for cutscenes, and I was able to find a bonus use for them too!  Check out the bronze warrior-maiden statue that adorns parts of Atlantis:

You can't see it very well here, but I added a skysphere to the map.  The whole thing is quite dim, so I'm thinking I need to change the lighting. Does anyone remember where the lighting info for a map is stored?

:EDIT: I found it.  Apparently ambient lighting info is stored in the map's script, either danger.py or mission.py.  That's super helpful to know.
http://www.freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=48659.msg665008#msg665008

Here's the skysphere, looking as it should with a cool underwater texture, and check out the brain-coral texture I put on the stones of the plaza.:
(http://i.imgur.com/0S7wGU9l.png) (https://imgur.com/0S7wGU9)

I tried to add a sky sphere directly to the terrain.nif with Nifskope, but apparently the game interprets it as terrain when you do that, and all the characters show up ON TOP of it.  So...that's not great.  I'm going to try adding sky spheres to some of these missions, but I'm wondering if they'll play nicely with the campaign.  I suppose I'll just have to try it and see.

So, that's my updated Atlantis map.  I'm reasonably happy with it, about as happy as I ever am with things I make myself.  What do y'all think? 
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on July 04, 2021, 02:43:59 AM
Now that’s Atlantis, just so many good things here and I think the hedge is fine.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 04, 2021, 02:51:17 AM
Thanks Dean!  That means a lot!

Though....grr...I JUST realized that apparently the texture I used for the brain-coral stonework has a watermark on it!  :wacko:
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 04, 2021, 04:17:12 AM
Okay...I'm not positive it will work in game yet, but there's a chance I've just discovered a way to combine maps in Nifskope, so that, at the least, I can have two different maps for use for CSes and such, and maybe even be able to jump between maps in gameplay.  This could be a game-changer for me.

I'm just copying and pasting one map onto another.  Chances are this will break everything horribly, but if not, I am super excited about the possibilities!

:EDIT: Gah, no luck!  Strangely, the mission loaded fine, but the changes I made to the terrain.nif just didn't show up.  Well, I'm not giving up.  I'll have to keep playing with it and see if I can figure it out.

:EDIT 2: Haha!  So, it works!  I'm a moron and had edited the terrain file in my main Data directory instead of the mod.  No wonder it didn't seem changed.  :P  So, I combined two maps, and it loaded successfully.  I couldn't use both because each had an impassable 'collar' around it in the nif.  I thought I removed those, but apparently not.  I'm pretty sure I can figure that out, though.

We have proof of concept!
(http://i.imgur.com/fbfy1gQl.png) (https://imgur.com/fbfy1gQ)

Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on July 04, 2021, 06:33:09 AM
I just want to say on behalf of this whole forum we are very lucky to have you here :D
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 04, 2021, 09:47:34 AM
Ditto! Very few people can create a mod anymore, let alone huge adventures as big as, if not bigger, than the original campaign.

Benton  - on Topo, I could take the basic octopus mesh and rig a non-animated version to the Triton keyframes. You could use the "other form" to swap it in when needed for attack or other actions.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 04, 2021, 02:52:01 PM
 :wub:
Beautiful work, looking forward to it  :thumbup:
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 04, 2021, 08:20:22 PM
Wow, thanks guys!  That is tremendously gratifying and encouraging to hear.  I really appreciate it, and I appreciate the support you've all given me!

RD, I remember now.  Since I've got other finny friends materials that will look okay, I don't think we'll worry about it.  That's a clever solution, but I see it being a bit too unwieldy to work well for something that's going to be AI controlled.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 05, 2021, 04:02:23 AM
So, longshot here, but does anyone know if it is possible to set flying FX so they only trigger when a character is moving, not just hovering?  I'm toying with giving all the aquatic characters bubble trails as they "swim", but it doesn't look right if they're generating a wake while standing still.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 05, 2021, 04:25:19 AM
So, longshot here, but does anyone know if it is possible to set flying FX so they only trigger when a character is moving, not just hovering?  I'm toying with giving all the aquatic characters bubble trails as they "swim", but it doesn't look right if they're generating a wake while standing still.
just a rambling, but maybe changing only the "run" keyframe for the "swim" animation in nifskope, and leaving the "idle" keyframe as it is?  :blink:
I made a beast boy that transform into a dinosaur when moving and goes back to his original form when standing still.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 05, 2021, 04:34:33 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, OK!  Unfortunately, this is an FX issue, not an animation issue.

On a related note, I'm getting a weird bug when I add flight FX to my built-in characters.  The buoyant FX that triggers at the beginning of a match (little green bubbles), which are connected to density, I think, don't go away.  They just keep playing on the character constantly.  Anyone know what the deal with that is?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 09, 2021, 01:19:39 AM
Howdy guys, guess what!  I've got the DreamWave function working in my missions.  I've got to play around with it and find a good setting, but I can now make the missions look 'underwater' with an actual camera filter.  Look for a video soon!

:EDIT: Okay, here are two videos for comparison.  What do y'all think works best:

Settings turned very low:
https://youtu.be/XdKTqHoiCTE

Settings turned somewhat low:
https://youtu.be/pMVU68sAj1Q

Which do y'all like best?  Do y'all think this is a good idea or that it will be too distracting?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Tomato on July 09, 2021, 04:24:23 AM
I think the very low looks ok. It's subtle enough that it won't be a problem, while still being present and adding to the atmosphere (I'd say the second video is almost too much), though I would advise including a way to turn it off if the player needs to... this feels like something that could trigger motion sickness in those predisposed to it.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 09, 2021, 04:30:27 AM
Thanks 'Mato!  Indeed, if I end up including this, I'll have an alternative set of missions that can be swapped out for these.  I had the same thought.

So folks, here's how you do this.  It's actually super simple.  This is the EZScript mission.py file that I've tweaked with the warp code:

Quote
minimod_storyfile = 'mission'

import m25minimod
from m25minimod import *

def OnPreRendererCreate():
   ff.RENDER_WARP = 1

#---------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# Important Callbacks
#
#---------------------------------------------------------------------   

def OnPostInit():
   m25minimod.OnPostInit(campaign=1)
   ff.RENDER_WARP = 1
   Mission_StartDreamWave(5,-1,0)
   Mission_FadeDreamSinParams(1, .02, .25, 1)

The "StarDream" bit turns it on, and the numbers tell the game (how long to fade in, how long it lasts, and how long to fade out).  So, in this case it runs forever and doesn't fade out.
The "FadeDream" bit tells the game what intensity it's all at: (Wave Frequency, Wave Amplitude, Wave Speed, and Fade Time.)

You can find a complete description of this function in the scripting document on page 46.  I'll make a short tutorial video about this soon.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 09, 2021, 01:44:24 PM
Howdy guys, guess what!  I've got the DreamWave function working in my missions.  I've got to play around with it and find a good setting, but I can now make the missions look 'underwater' with an actual camera filter.  Look for a video soon!

:EDIT: Okay, here are two videos for comparison.  What do y'all think works best:

Settings turned very low:
https://youtu.be/XdKTqHoiCTE

Settings turned somewhat low:
https://youtu.be/pMVU68sAj1Q

Which do y'all like best?  Do y'all think this is a good idea or that it will be too distracting?

Looks great !! I agree with tomato, the settings very low is fine to me, while the other may be too much, specially when moving the map.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 09, 2021, 02:18:13 PM
Benton,

You were talking about maps awhile ago. I have a 3 pack of underwater maps by Dana - Underwater, Underwater Cave and Underwater City. I don't know if you have them, but they also feature an underwater ambient sound that will play when the map is active. This might be what you were looking for.

I also have an Underwater map by Gengaro and a Tide map by Ewzzy. 

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Jimaras8 on July 10, 2021, 06:32:22 AM
Can't wait to ply this Benton. My DC knowledge mainly comes from animation and movies so i can detach yself from the characters and explore them for the first time. Do you have a timetable for the update?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: dknight95 on July 10, 2021, 01:52:42 PM
Hey Benton, that effect is very cool, I personally like the 2nd version, Settings turned somewhat low:  https://youtu.be/pMVU68sAj1Q.  Your DC project seems to be coming along quite nicely.  Can't wait to see and play the DCUG once it is completed.  Never played the earlier version that you released years ago, so looking forward to your masterpiece.  You are helping to keep  :ffvstr:  alive with your valiant and valued efforts, for that alone you deserve much thanks. 
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 10, 2021, 02:37:17 PM
Thanks guys!  That is really encouraging to hear! 

Jim, my hope is that I can have it done-ish by the end of the summer.  We'll see, but I'm working really hard to get there!  My working plan at the moment is to finish the first arc of my epic Aqua-campaign, then start on my systematic updating of characters, powers, and balance.  Then, if I have time, keep working on campaigns.  But I may release an updated version once I have all of that stuff done, and then just keep working and release updates as I finish more stories.  We'll see.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: naitvalis on July 10, 2021, 04:52:53 PM
The wave water effect is very cool i like the 2nd one too, the whole thing look very "immersive" now  :D, however the knockback of the "flyng"melee attacs looks to much considering you are underwater, also i want suggest to open your map terrain with nifskope and add an enormous blue object that will incapsulate the map then you gave this object a bluish material tone and give this object an alpha for transparency property this will eventually simulate a bluish fog... probably...you'r doing a very nice job Bg !
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 10, 2021, 10:28:25 PM
Howdy Nait, and thanks!  Yeah, I'm afraid the KB is an issue that has been troubling me, but I don't think there's much I can do with it.  It's not going to look quite 'right' without being able to tweak the physics engine itself, sadly.

I'm curious what you mean about editing the map.  Can you tell me a bit more about what you have in mind?  I tried adding a skysphere directly to the map, but it created a false 'floor' that all the characters spawned on, on top of the sphere, making the map unplayable.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 13, 2021, 07:47:33 PM
Okay guys, opinion time again.  I've got the warp effect turned on at the lowest setting, providing some watery camera effects, and now I'm starting to explore the lighting settings.  Here's one of my levels with the blue filter turned all the way up.  What do y'all think?
(http://i.imgur.com/7fHpraPl.png) (https://imgur.com/7fHpraP) (http://i.imgur.com/TSKVZ0Pl.png) (https://imgur.com/TSKVZ0P)

(http://i.imgur.com/Iqhf9RYl.png) (https://imgur.com/Iqhf9RY) (http://i.imgur.com/hFzjjI5l.png) (https://imgur.com/hFzjjI5)
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 13, 2021, 07:52:49 PM
And here's the same map with the red turned down a bit and the green jacked up close to the blue.  I think this one looks pretty darn good.  What do y'all think?
(http://i.imgur.com/il3e70el.png) (https://imgur.com/il3e70e) (http://i.imgur.com/qO9gpZol.png) (https://imgur.com/qO9gpZo)
(http://i.imgur.com/sVBq00bl.png) (https://imgur.com/sVBq00b) (http://i.imgur.com/u8LrTY0l.png) (https://imgur.com/u8LrTY0)
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 13, 2021, 09:12:48 PM
I'd go with the green.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 13, 2021, 09:25:07 PM
Yeah, the green one looks better  :lol:
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 13, 2021, 11:46:56 PM
Thanks guys!  Here's another little touch I've added to my palace map.  I'm rather pleased with it (though I'm fighting with the lighting on the map, so it's rather dim).  The palace walls got a bit of decoration!  I took some pages from the Atlantis Chronicles comic and turned them into textures for a sign object.  I think they look rather nice.

(http://i.imgur.com/T4kLG8Hl.png) (https://imgur.com/T4kLG8H)
(http://i.imgur.com/6UvtfhCl.png) (https://imgur.com/6UvtfhC)
(http://i.imgur.com/70jEe5Jl.png) (https://imgur.com/70jEe5J)
(http://i.imgur.com/BmJvmHdl.png) (https://imgur.com/BmJvmHd)
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 14, 2021, 04:13:51 AM
Hey, this Atlantis map is looking GREAT. Love that floor.

One way to make it look "underwatery" might be to have little bits of mist floating around. It could give the impression of the sort of wavy things they always draw in comic book underwater scenes.

Also... bubbles? Pockets of bubbles? Maybe there's a way to suspend one of the FX?

Coloured lights I actually have a GREAT object for that in my city maps! I edited some regular light object? I forget the process, but the map is littered with various coloured light objects in purple, pink, blue, green.
http://heroforce.freedomforceforever.com/unkoman.html

EDIT: I think I had to edit values in nikskope, like RD mentions. If you can find the object and take it out, I'm pretty sure all you'd need to do is change the colour value.

As for a CONE of light, yes I do believe the streetlamps in FFvsTR has a cone effect. Is that a transparent object with a texture? If it IS, and I get the base texture I can easily whip up a "ray beam" style skin to go on there.

EDIT 2: Don't know how hard it is to take models and pose them?
https://www.models-resource.com/ds_dsi/finalfantasyiii/model/31406/
But if somebody could make this into a static pose and I got the skin file, I could easily put a statue skin on it.

Unko, I don't think I processed all of this when I read it first.  I was just looking back over it and noticed your point about the streetlight object.  I had been messing with street light.nifs, and I hadn't seen anything, but I just realized that I was looking at the day-time ones!  The night ones do indeed have a cone of light!  Great idea!  I'll have to figure out what to do with it.  I might be able to blow it up and add it directly to some of the maps! 

Thanks man!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 14, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the look. I think I've got some more painting like artwork I can send your way if you want. You could also use the signs with a banner texture with a lot of alpha around the edges. This could be a substitute for your banner problem.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on July 14, 2021, 02:22:07 PM
I do kinda like both but green is just a bit better👍
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 14, 2021, 03:04:29 PM
Thanks, Dean!

RD, I'm open to suggestions!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 14, 2021, 09:57:41 PM
A few pics sent to give you an idea.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 15, 2021, 05:11:04 AM
Thanks RD!

Howdy folks, I've posted a new Developer's Diary, with previews of my new Aquaman missions!  If you've been following my work in my DCUG threads, you may find a lot of this is old news, but I've included information on how I've accomplished some of the different underwater effects and how I've scripted these missions.
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2021/07/14/dcug-developers-diary-6/
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: spydermann93 on July 15, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Awesome dev diary, Benton! Always good reads!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 15, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Thanks Spyder, glad you enjoyed it!

Okay guys, here's a question for y'all.  If you saw this, what would you think it was?
(http://i.imgur.com/Ru6dwdGl.png) (https://imgur.com/Ru6dwdG)
(http://i.imgur.com/Uo4qyF6l.png) (https://imgur.com/Uo4qyF6)

I'm working on my newest map, and I'm not really sure I'm getting the point across.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 15, 2021, 09:13:55 PM
My first impression is a dirty, slum area of a town.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 15, 2021, 10:28:32 PM
I'm working on my newest map, and I'm not really sure I'm getting the point across.

like a dock? seems like a fisherman's town
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 15, 2021, 11:15:15 PM
Well, haha, I think that answers my question.  I have not successfully captured the setting.  It's supposed to be an oil rig in the ocean.  The trouble is, I'm not sure what to do to improve it.  As I often say, I wish CmdrKoenig was around!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 15, 2021, 11:41:23 PM
How about one of these imported - https://www.models-resource.com/pc_computer/counterstrike16/model/28147/ (https://www.models-resource.com/pc_computer/counterstrike16/model/28147/)

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/8/8e/Offshore_Platform_%28Civ4%29.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/301?cb=20100802133650 (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/8/8e/Offshore_Platform_%28Civ4%29.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/301?cb=20100802133650)

Not sure about details, but one could be used as a base.

Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 15, 2021, 11:50:38 PM
Hmm, the first one is probably too complicated to work as an FF map...I don't know enough about the mesh settings of maps to know for sure, but I foresee the pathfinding being a mess.

The second one might work, but is it big and hi-res enough to serve as the foundation of a map?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 16, 2021, 12:14:57 AM
Size is adjustable of course.

The 1st one is actually only 25 K in vertexes, about 1.3 megs in size when converted. It shouldn't burden the system to much.

The second one - Hi- res - I just looked at it and it would need a reskin as the skin is low res. This one is for Civ 4, So I'll look and see if there's a higherres one from 5 or 6 that's usable.

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 16, 2021, 12:20:32 AM
It isn't the size of the first one that would be the issue, but it's height complexity.  FF doesn't do well with elevation.  It might work completely fine, but that's delving into an area that I know nothing about.

Yeah, see if there are higher res ones that could work.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 16, 2021, 03:04:16 AM
Okay...how about if I add an oil derrick looking object in the center, and then add some piping around the deck.  Should I add more buildings to make it feel more crowded?  I may have to balance playability and feel.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on July 16, 2021, 05:43:32 AM
Maybe add a crane, a couple of silo’s. Maybe a couple of lifeboats.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 16, 2021, 01:56:25 PM
Ohh, good ideas, Dean!  Yeah, silos I can do, and lifeboats too, I think.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on July 16, 2021, 02:26:22 PM
Benton, I just you a Oil derrick and a Helipad Base that might be useful.

My suggestion is that most oil platforms are up a bit - it looks like its right on the water from your pics. Could you place a large building, or more than one, on the map, reskin it to look like the platform, and then place the objects on the building roof?

I think the very rusty looking floor throws things off a bit as well, unless you're going for an abandoned rig look. Maybe a steel diamond deck texture for the floor instead?

RD
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 16, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
My suggestion is that the surface of the oil rig should be smaller in comparison with the rest of the map-water, otherwise it looks like a whole town.
Maybe you could use the "tower of doom" map as a base for a oil rig in the ocean   :unsure:  but that seems a lot of work
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 16, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
Okay guys, drawing on your suggestions, and with some help from the indispensable RD, here's version 2.0.  What do y'all think?

(http://i.imgur.com/HvIHZPCl.png) (https://imgur.com/HvIHZPC)
(http://i.imgur.com/GrOTucHl.png) (https://imgur.com/GrOTucH)

I've replaced the rusty texture with a red-painted metal texture, added crane arms to my cranes, moved some things around a bit, and added new helipad and oil derrick objects that RD imported for me.  I think I'm getting closer.  I'm still thinking of adding some piping around.

RD, this map 'rig' is pretty close to the water, because I'm worried about camera controls and the game freaking out a bit.  My original plan was to have it propped way up, as it should be, but that messes with camera angles and the whole thing just feels 'off.'  I probably should have built this map over Pan's Island, but that would have presented its own challenges, including size, since that one is pretty darn big, really.  I'm going to experiment with actually lowering the 'water' terrain bits.  We'll see if that breaks it all horribly.

OK, do you mean the skyscraper top map?  That would have been a good idea, but then that would create problems for anyone who got knocked off this map.  I would hate for Aquaman to get knocked off and get killed from being thrown into the water!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: oktokels on July 17, 2021, 11:49:23 AM
I would hate for Aquaman to get knocked off and get killed from being thrown into the water!

hahahah  :D not a very good way for aquaman to go  :D
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 23, 2021, 04:43:03 PM
Okay, mission #5 is finished.  I'm still not happy with my map, but hopefully it at least won't be distractingly bad, ha.  #6 was supposed to be a very easy one to do, but I realized that I used the map I was going to use for New Venice as Coast City, so I'm back to the drawing board!  I've got a plan that I hope will be rather cool without being a huge amount of work.  I'm re-tooling a Berlin map as a partially flooded Southern city, the DCU version of New Orleans, which is how I'm conceptualizing New Venice.  At the moment I'm mostly just switching Nazi stuff out for regular objects, but I'll probably make some larger changes too.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 24, 2021, 04:46:03 AM
Okay guys, I have spent all day working on the map for mission #6, and I'm finally getting relatively happy with it.  I owe a BIG thanks to SPY and Tomato, who each helped me out with getting the buildings to look right, with textures and meshing respectively.  They were a huge help!  This is largely the same map as the Berlin one, but I think it has a very different vibe now, with a much more colorful look and a more tropical feel.  See what y'all think:
(http://i.imgur.com/sZThKkJl.png) (https://imgur.com/sZThKkJ)
(http://i.imgur.com/jakRBGol.png) (https://imgur.com/jakRBGo)
(http://i.imgur.com/Nk2FLTvl.png) (https://imgur.com/Nk2FLTv)
(http://i.imgur.com/5EZqneml.png) (https://imgur.com/5EZqnem)
(http://i.imgur.com/pfTO7u8l.png) (https://imgur.com/pfTO7u8)
(http://i.imgur.com/wfDAXnJl.png) (https://imgur.com/wfDAXnJ)

Check out the cool posters SPY made for me!
(http://i.imgur.com/plm510Ul.png) (https://imgur.com/plm510U)
(http://i.imgur.com/f8T3HRQl.png) (https://imgur.com/f8T3HRQ)

Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on July 24, 2021, 07:51:27 AM
Fantastic :thumbup: everything just looks so good. I love how everybody is getting behind this and helping out.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: naitvalis on July 24, 2021, 07:39:08 PM
Very nice map, love the atmosphere of it, even if looks like more suitable for a detective story then a punch game, however you'r gathering great material around this project my friend,   :thumbup:
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 24, 2021, 07:44:00 PM
Thanks guys!  Yeah, Dean, the support from the community is really keeping me energized and keeping me going!

Very nice map, love the atmosphere of it, even if looks like more suitable for a detective story then a punch game, however you'r gathering great material around this project my friend,   :thumbup:

Haha, Nait, I guess so!  Well, once I release it, folks can use this map for a detective story if they want.  :)
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on July 25, 2021, 04:13:15 AM
Alright, #6 is written!  Now I've just got to test 5 and 6...think I'll leave that for tomorrow.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on August 08, 2021, 02:46:35 PM
I finally tested #s 5 & 6, and I got them working, though it was far from a smooth process!  Check out my latest developer's diary here if you want to know how it all came together or would like a look at my work on the Green Lantern Corps members in preparation for their campaign.:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/dcug-developers-diary-7/
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: deanjo2000 on August 08, 2021, 04:11:02 PM
I love these updates, and it blows my mind the hurdles you get over :thumbup:
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on August 09, 2021, 02:41:26 PM
Thanks man!  I'm really glad you're enjoying them!  Haha, every time I write one, I find myself thinking, will anyone care about these details?  :D
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Randomdays on August 09, 2021, 03:12:22 PM
It's a small group, and growing stronger, but an audience of one who loves your work is better than an audience of thousands who don't care.

And don't forget the lurkers - I'm sure they're out there.

Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on August 09, 2021, 05:13:42 PM
That's certainly true, RD.  And I hope to do some promotion when the mod is near finished that might bring some new blood to our community.  Nonetheless, what I'm doing is for the folks that are here, no doubt about it! :)
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: naitvalis on August 09, 2021, 06:42:26 PM
You do always Great and big mods my friend, everyone Who love aquaman Will be very interested now or whenever they discover your mod, keep up the good work man!
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on August 10, 2021, 03:00:47 AM
Thank, Nait!  I hope so!  :D
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Borgaster on November 06, 2021, 03:22:20 AM
I'm very sad for write it, but this game is the only solution for play with characters of the Golden Age. DC only create games for Batman and Marvel for Spider Man. What is happening?
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: BentonGrey on November 11, 2021, 03:22:02 PM
Yeah, there's not a lot of love for the older versions of the DC Universe or even many of the older characters in the games being produced these days.  That makes sense, but folks who want a more classic version of the universe have to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: DCUG: Under Construction
Post by: Borgaster on December 04, 2021, 12:21:32 AM
Benton, has any mod about Superman that any modder created by a miracle that don't appear in the list of backup mods here in the forum? For The Modern Warner Bros Superman and Justice League don't exist. I find a lot of videos in Youtube that the own americans are angry a lot with the Games that Marvel and Warner Bros are create and others companies that are create horrible games for American Sports and Racing. The americans in the past created the best games, the best movies, the best cartoons, the best music in the world and the best comics. These things are disappearing day by day!!! My god, what is happening with United States?